a lot of people go around claiming that Riku is the deepest most well done characters in Kingdom Hearts... and I just don't see it

 

Like okay, in KH1 he's basically Gary Oak, or Sasuke, or Vegeta, or any other generic rival type character. But that's not the Riku anybody seems to care about. It's what came after. His u turn, into a completely different character

 

a character that REFUSES TO CHANGE

like man, people hate how they keep reusing Sora's KH1 outfit, but I'm more tired oft hem reusing the same personality for Riku despite his 'growth'

 

Like let's look at hain of Memories. Probably the most reasonable depiction. He still retains some of the cockiness he had in KH1, which is easily contrasted with Sora's CoM depiction. He's also pretty upset with himself over giving in to the darkness, which, you know, makes sense. The events of KH1 JUST happened, it makes sense to carry that over

 

So the game ends with Riku realizing that darkness isn't something he can get rid of. He owns it, and uses it in tandem with the light. This is summed up with his final words where he refuses the path of light or dark, and instead takes the path between

okay, so far so good right?

So where do we see him next?

 

358/2 Days

 

Where he talks about how he gave in to the darkness and that makes him a phony, and he broods and complains, darkness darkness darkness. ultimately his arc ends with him... giving in to the darkness. which is now a bad thing, I guess. despite this Riku retains his sense of self, yet again proving he can walk the path of light and dark

 

So then KH2 rolls along and

Riku's arc is

oh no

I gave into the darkness

that's so terrible

I can't let anybody see me

because I'm so dark

darkness oh no

brood brood

angst angst

how will I face anybody

and then this ends with Riku regaining his body and darkness powers, again showin us that Riku can walk the path of light and dark

 

This plot point of darkness permeates SO DEEPLY into Riku's character 'growth' that it shows up again in Re:Coded where Data Riku somehow has darkness inside him waiting to be exploited despite not being the same Riku or going through any of the same events as the real Riku. The darkness is just... there

and he feels bad

and complains

and broods and angsts

 

But don't worry, next game KH3D!

Where Riku doesn't think he deserves to try being a keyblade master because

darkness

darkness

blah

blah

 

holy carp just shut up about the darkness its been like two years

 

I'm sorry, but beside the original drastic shift after KH1 Riku hasn't really grown as a character at all

and no, his constant inflicting of self harm as 'penance' doesn't count. Real character growth would have him learn to deal with the ramifications of his actions, not learn to be okay with Sora not caring that he destroyed the world and tried to kill him

 

Valid points.

 

So.

 

Where do we go from here?

You were right about the majority of the series, except the end of Dream Drop Distance

But don't worry, next game KH3D!Where Riku doesn't think he deserves to try being a keyblade master becausedarknessdarknessblahblah

You forget that at the end of the game he's finally over it, as evidenced by his quotes towards the end of the game"After allowing darkness into my heart, am I still fit to wield the Keyblade? Even after locking you away, here you are, haunting me again. So I get it now. There's no point in trying to hold the darkness back.""I know the way. Consume the darkness, return it to light.""Ansem! You're part of my heart now. Part of the light!"So yes he used to gripe about the darkness throughout the series, but upon fighting Ansem in DDD he finally figures it out and realizes how to conquer the darkness by consuming it then channeling it into light- something I have yet to hear in the series before this point

Riku is far from my favorite character, but I can't ignore the fact he uses both light and darkness, suggesting one can be turned into the other while the rest of the series only says one purges the other or they need to exist in equilibrium

Well, as for Data Riku, he kinda is the same character and kinda did have the same experiences because he's basically KH 1 Riku's Journal entrees brought to life, like just about all the characters in the Datascape. But yeah it kind of does seem like at the end of every game he apparantly accepts and overcomes his darkness, but then the next game roles aroungd and he's right back to square one. I hope now that he's a Master he'll actually not make such a big deal about having so much darkness, but I can unfortunatly see him doubting himself yet again

"Am I really fit to be a Keyblade Master? I gave in to the darkness, what if Yen Sid made a mistake?"

 

Oh, man. I should totally go on KH wiki and change all his quotes to his "I gave in to the darkness" lines from each game.

Edited December 12, 201410 yr by Isamu_Kuno

Right, because real people don't act like that at all. A big change can totally happen in less than a year.  :dry:

 

Seriously though, I don't agree with anything you said. Don't need to explain anything to me, it's just that simple.

Edited December 12, 201410 yr by Hero of Light XIV

Double posted whoops

 

At least I'm helping the Moderators earn their imaginary paychecks

Edited December 12, 201410 yr by Ruby Rose

You were right about the majority of the series, except the end of Dream Drop DistanceYou forget that at the end of the game he's finally over it, as evidenced by his quotes towards the end of the game"After allowing darkness into my heart, am I still fit to wield the Keyblade? Even after locking you away, here you are, haunting me again. So I get it now. There's no point in trying to hold the darkness back.""I know the way. Consume the darkness, return it to light.""Ansem! You're part of my heart now. Part of the light!"So yes he used to gripe about the darkness throughout the series, but upon fighting Ansem in DDD he finally figures it out and realizes how to conquer the darkness by consuming it then channeling it into light- something I have yet to hear in the series before this point

or did he? you could make the same argument about KH2 or CoM's ending

only a sequel will tell if it sticks this time

Edited December 12, 201410 yr by hatok

Right, because real people don't act like that at all. A big change can totally happen in less than a year.  :dry:

The problem is that he apparently does go through a big change in just about every game, only to have it ripped away and start brooding again. It's not that he hasn't changed, it's that the changes almost never stick.

Right, because real people don't act like that at all. A big change can totally happen in less than a year.  :dry:

don't try to pull this realism argument, like KH or writing in general aims to deipct people in a realistic way

or did he? you could make the same argument about KH2 or CoM's endingonly a sequel will tell if it sticks now

But before he never talked about consuming the darkness and transforming it into lightIt was always he can use both or one cannot exist without the other, but now he's brought up a new point of transforming one into the otherIt's not that they're two separate powers or help each other exist, Riku now brings up the point that they can be transformed into each otherThat's more growth than even Master Eraqus, Xehanort, or Mickey had- since their views on light and darkness never accounted for thisHe's shown more growth than the Masters before him, proving that he's matured and earned his current title as Master from his experiences thus far as they have made him realize more about light and darkness than other characters in the series by this point

Edited December 12, 201410 yr by Ruby Rose

The problem is that he apparently does go through a big change in just about every game, only to have it ripped away and start brooding again. It's not that he hasn't changed, it's that the changes almost never stick.

Again, how many people in real life do you know who finally figure out the answer to this big problem they have with themselves only to keep doing it again a few more times until you finally have the willpower to follow through with the solution? It's not a very common thing for people to start to make a change in their lives and stick with it consistently, sometimes you keep falling for the same traps that you've found yourself in before. I encounter things like that in my life and something as hard as "getting over the darkness" isn't something that you can just get through once and never have to worry about again, it keeps popping up on you. And despite the repeated patterns, not every "relapse" is a return to "square one". Each time is a step closer to finding solace, Riku may face the same struggle, but it's not one that can just be taken care of in one game. It hasn't been 4 games of the same struggle being repeated over and over again, it's one struggle spanning 4 games. The first game is where he fell from grace but regained his senses, CoM he started to come to terms with his darkness, Days and II he had to rely on Shadow that he had renounced but remembered that rather than having to find strength for his friends he could find strength from them, and in DDD he finally found that he could take what plagued him and turn it into something better (not his darkness mind you, but outside darknesses that try to corrupt him like Ansem). Now I'm fairly certain that Riku's story arc in KH3 won't be so focused on fighting his darkness and all that, and I'm fairly confident that his struggle has ended for good more or less. If it turns out that it does happen again though, and it doesn't feel that different, then by all means I'll start to see something with what you both are saying.

But he did learn from his actions.

don't try to pull this realism argument, like KH or writing in general aims to deipct people in a realistic way

Again, I disagree. If you can compare how a character doesn't appear to change as opposed to any other character or person, I don't see why that can't be applied to how people actually work. It feels like a weak excuse to not think further about it.

Again, how many people in real life do you know who finally figure out the answer to this big problem they have with themselves only to keep doing it again a few more times until you finally have the willpower to follow through with the solution? It's not a very common thing for people to start to make a change in their lives and stick with it consistently, sometimes you keep falling for the same traps that you've found yourself in before. I encounter things like that in my life and something as hard as "getting over the darkness" isn't something that you can just get through once and never have to worry about again, it keeps popping up on you. And despite the repeated patterns, not every "relapse" is a return to "square one". Each time is a step closer to finding solace, Riku may face the same struggle, but it's not one that can just be taken care of in one game. It hasn't been 4 games of the same struggle being repeated over and over again, it's one struggle spanning 4 games. The first game is where he fell from grace but regained his senses, CoM he started to come to terms with his darkness, Days and II he had to rely on Shadow that he had renounced but remembered that rather than having to find strength for his friends he could find strength from them, and in DDD he finally found that he could take what plagued him and turn it into something better (not his darkness mind you, but outside darknesses that try to corrupt him like Ansem). Now I'm fairly certain that Riku's story arc in KH3 won't be so focused on fighting his darkness and all that, and I'm fairly confident that his struggle has ended for good more or less. If it turns out that it does happen again though, and it doesn't feel that different, then by all means I'll start to see something with what you both are saying.

This a a video game, not real life. If you watch a T.V. show for four seasons, and a character makes major strides every season, but starts all over again in the next, you're going to loose interest. I don't know if you watch Once Upon a Time, but that's the biggest issue people have with Regina, and more of her progress actually stuck than Riku's has. It's the same thing with all forms of creative media. Character development only means something if it sticks. Now, it would be different if he actually had to face the ramifications of his actions in the first game, had to make amends to someone he'd hurt, that at least would give him a reason to look back. But he doesn't bauca use , despite the fact that he never actually apologized, everyone has already forgiven him except him.

Edited December 12, 201410 yr by Isamu_Kuno

I agree mostly; although, it does at least appear that (as of KH3D) he has made pretty big strides in trying to understand himself, his darkness, and his light.  I don't really think it was presented nearly as much as it should of been in KH3D, given the context of the entire series, but I mean at least it seems like change that he deserves.

*coughstillbetterthanSoracough*

This a a video game, not real life. If you watch a T.V. show for four seasons, and a character makes major strides every season, but starts all over again in the next, you're going to loose interest. I don't know if you watch Once Upon a Time, but that's the biggest issue people have with Regina, and more of her progress actually stuck than Riku's has. It's the same thing with all forms of creative media. Character development only means something if it sticks.

You can make the argument his character development drops in every installment, but as it stands there's no evidence Riku is going to be a blank slate again at the beginning of III so that's just speculation at this point, no matter how likely, it's a guess at bestCurrently here's what we do know: he is a newly appointed Master whose view on light and darkness has surpassed not only his peers but those before himUntil we get more news/footage of KHIII that is the current standing, which makes him one of the most developed characters in the series so far until it's shown otherwise

 I don't really think it was presented nearly as much as it should of been in KH3D

Honestly, I think that's a byproduct of the nature of 3D itself. Having played through a significant portion of it at this point, it portrays itself very, very strangely. Like, maybe that was done on purpose because of the fact that most of the game is all set in Dream Worlds and dreams themselves are almost schizophrenic in nature, but none of the characters act quite...'right', at least in the Dream Worlds themselves. Like someone mentioned in a thread about this earlier, sometimes it's almost as if Sora and Riku aren't even present.

 

Because in every other game, I can empathize with Riku in some way. Though some times it feels like he takes two steps forward and one step back, you can always tell where his state of mind is at a certain point and see what things change him. (And he does change, let's not pretend that he has never shown any growth as a character, even if it's minuscule according to some people's standards) Again, throughout most of 358 and KHII, he just broods, but reuniting with Sora and Kairi cheers him up and he actually smiles and laughs. But in DDD, it's almost like they reset him on purpose because of the nature of the dreams themselves, much like how Sora just seems to be dumber than usual. It almost seems intentional to me.

 

Anyway, I like Riku and though his character progression seems redundant at times, I feel like he always shows some amount of change in each game. It's just a long process. I guess that's just annoying to some people at this point, but I don't really have a problem with it.

Edited December 12, 201410 yr by Kaweebo

This a a video game, not real life. If you watch a T.V. show for four seasons, and a character makes major strides every season, but starts all over again in the next, you're going to loose interest. I don't know if you watch Once Upon a Time, but that's the biggest issue people have with Regina, and more of her progress actually stuck than Riku's has. It's the same thing with all forms of creative media. Character development only means something if it sticks.

But you guys keep saying that he "completely resets", but he doesn't. If it was true, he would have still been blinded by the darkness at the beginning of CoM, and would have thought that any darkness including his own was bad in Days and II (as a matter of fact the only thing he was worried about was Ansem's darkness). The ONLY point where I ever felt that he may had taken a FULL step back was in the beginning of DDD where he suddenly wonders if his past mistakes make him unworthy of the official title of Master (not that unreasonable of a doubt to have, but he almost acts as though he didn't come back from it all). Let me make it clear, his progress HAS stuck, everything he learned has lead up to his becoming of a Master. His struggle showed a pattern, but that's because that's how people learn, sometimes you need to go through the same thing over and over until you get it right. In each victory, Riku still found a problem or a weakness, but he eventually overcame all of them. People don't just stay consistent, not all at once. I think his development went fine. There can always be improvement, but I don't think it's any worse off now.

I agree mostly; although, it does at least appear that (as of KH3D) he has made pretty big strides in trying to understand himself, his darkness, and his light.  I don't really think it was presented nearly as much as it should of been in KH3D, given the context of the entire series, but I mean at least it seems like change that he deserves.

It looked that way at the end of CoM too.

*coughstillbetterthanSoracough*

Sora? You mean the one guy in the series who hasn't managed to screw everything up?

You can make the argument his character development drops in every installment, but as it stands there's no evidence Riku is going to be a blank slate again at the beginning of III so that's just speculation at this point, no matter how likely, it's a guess at bestCurrently here's what we do know: he is a newly appointed Master whose view on light and darkness has surpassed not only his peers but those before himUntil we get more news/footage of KHIII that is the current standing, which makes him one of the most developed characters in the series so far until it's shown otherwise

True, but as it stands he'said just managed to go back and forth wo without making any real permanent progress. We don't have any evidence that his progress stuck this time either, just like we don't have any that it hasn't.

Sora? You mean the one guy in the series who hasn't managed to screw everything up? 

 

Exactly. He's boring/shot

It looked that way at the end of CoM too. Sora? You mean the one guy in the series who hasn't managed to screw everything up? True, but as it stands he'said just managed to go back and forth wo without making any real permanent progress. We don't have any evidence that his progress stuck this time either, just like we don't have any that it hasn't.

In the first game he submits to Ansem simply so he can become stronger and defeat SoraIn Days he submits to the darkness in order to save his best friend, SoraThat's a good amount of growth for any character, and it obviously stuck since he's been fighting to protect Sora ever since

In the first game he submits to Ansem simply so he can become stronger and defeat SoraIn Days he submits to the darkness in order to save his best friend, SoraThat's a good amount of growth for any character, and it obviously stuck since he's been fighting to protect Sora ever since

And yet, he still doubts himself at every turn, despite having saved Sora, saved the worlds (twice if you count the end of the first game, which you should because he helped close the door) and defeated Ansem (we'll say once because, like you said, we don't know if it stuck this time or not). He keeps revisiting that one initial moment of weakness giving himself an excise to doubt himself.

 

Okay, so maybe he's not as stagnant as it seems, but he's certainly far from the most well developed character in the series.

And yet, he still doubts himself at every turn, despite having saved Sora, saved the worlds (twice if you count the end of the first game, which you should because he helped close the door) and defeated Ansem (we'll say once because, like you said, we don't know if it stuck this time or not). He keeps revisiting that one initial moment of weakness giving himself an excise to doubt himself. Okay, so maybe he's not as stagnant as it seems, but he's certainly far from the most well developed character in the series.

He destroyed the Destiny Islands, placing his friends and family in danger, because he was power hungryHe fought against his best friend with the intent of killing himHe allowed a monster to possess his body all so he could be stronger than his friendNothing will ever erase those events, no amount of good will ever make those simply disapearIf Riku simply shrugged it off and acted like it was no big deal he'd come off as a prickIt's not like he ate a cookie before having dinner: he nearly killed everyone he ever knew- people don't get over that in a year or two, the way Riku has acted is very realistic compared to the rest of the Kingdom Hearts cast and I admire itSometimes you yourself have good days and you have bad, some days Riku can get over the atrocities he committed but other days he's plagued by the guilt of what could have beenThe fact Ansem the Seeker of Darkness is still at large also shows his fight isn't over yet- Ansem's presence is a constant reminder of Riku's past- until Ansem is finally defeated and gone for good, Riku can never begin to seek closure over his past

He destroyed the Destiny Islands, placing his friends and family in danger, because he was power hungryHe fought against his best friend with the intent of killing himHe allowed a monster to possess his body all so he could be stronger than his friendNothing will ever erase those events, no amount of good will ever make those simply disapearIf Riku simply shrugged it off and acted like it was no big deal he'd come off as a prickIt's not like he ate a cookie before having dinner: he nearly killed everyone he ever knew- people don't get over that in a year or two, the way Riku has acted is very realistic compared to the rest of the Kingdom Hearts cast and I admire itSometimes you yourself have good days and you have bad, some days Riku can get over the atrocities he committed but other days he's plagued by the guilt of what could have beenThe fact Ansem the Seeker of Darkness is still at large also shows his fight isn't over yet- Ansem's presence is a constant reminder of Riku's past- until Ansem is finally defeated and gone for good, Riku can never begin to seek closure over his past

Everyone else has. He's the only one who can't let it go. In fact, every entree he seems to dwell on it more and more.

CoM: I'm not a puppet any more.Days. "I screwed up, I have to make things rightKH II "Nobody look at me, I'm a despicable human being"3D " Do I even deserve the Keyblade?"At this rate in KH III he'll be saying he shouldn't even exist.

Edited December 12, 201410 yr by Isamu_Kuno