What are the worst ones

EXPLAIN them 

Edited July 28, 201510 yr by TheNinjasJoint

time travel

time travel

I need more of an explanation, it's no good just saying time travel, explain how it's a plothole and how it makes no sense

KH doesn't have all that many big plot holes

in terms of retcons, definitely the drastically decreasing value of a keyblade

Time Travel, I have to agree on that one.

 

It is explained poorly, the rules are broken immediately by the Young Xehanort Boss Fight and it has almost no use, especially since it defies what Xehanort wants to do and he can't do it if he's working with Amnesiacs.

Time Travel, I have to agree on that one.

 

It is explained poorly, the rules are broken immediately by the Young Xehanort Boss Fight and it has almost no use, especially since it defies what Xehanort wants to do and he can't do it if he's working with Amnesiacs.

How does it defy what Xehanort wants to do

I need more of an explanation, it's no good just saying time travel, explain how it's a plothole and how it makes no sense

The time travel that was introduced in DDD is so confusing because we haven't even seen the whole time travel thing through young xehanort's eyes since he's the guy who uses time travel to his advantage. If we were to get that kind of a cutscene in kh3 that would answer a lot of questions. 

Time Travel, I have to agree on that one.

 

It is explained poorly, the rules are broken immediately by the Young Xehanort Boss Fight and it has almost no use, especially since it defies what Xehanort wants to do and he can't do it if he's working with Amnesiacs.

Is that not clear?

Birth By Sleep.

 

Don't ask why.

 

Don't get me started.

 

I could write my Thesis statement on that alone.

Ansem the wise's heart decoder machine that should have completely destroyed him somehow sent him to the realm of nothingness. Not even to the data world where he was trying to send the hearts but to the realm of nothingness. If i missed the reasoning behind this plz explain.

 

Also ven's comatose body is somehow not dead after 10 years of no food. Im just saiyan

Edited July 28, 201510 yr by Eternalsleep

Lea woke up with the black coat instead of his original clothes in KH3D.

Mickey didn't remember Terra when he met Xemnas.

Mickey never met Xehanort in BbS but in KH3D they talk like they have always known each other.

Riku gives Kairi a keyblade.

Namine unnecessarily dissapeared near the end of KH2.

Time travel was bad bc there were rules presented yet it's clear there are several different versions/ways used in the series.(two of them alone in DDD) Also it was thrown in there the last minute.

 

The way an X-blade was made was retconned from 1 light vs 1 darkness to 13 vs 7. Poorly done

 

How Riku just handed Kairi her keyblade.

 

The reports have several contradictions and retcons.( ex how the apprentices lost their hearts since DDD shows them being stabbed unvoluntarily) Also in the KH1 ansem reports there is an implication that certain reports were written by Ansem the Wise due to the fact that they could only come from his POV. In KH2 it was retconned to he only wrote the first one.

 

 

Lea woke up with the black coat instead of his original clothes in KH3D.
Mickey didn't remember Terra when he met Xemnas.

This is not a retcon or plothole. It just means he lost his heart while wearing the coat. Just like the reason he revived in the lab was bc he lost his heart there too.

 

I don't think Mickey ever met Terra? He knew about him though.

 

 

Also...Ansem was sent to the RoD not nothingness.

He was trying to turn those hearts into data not necessarily to the data world per se.

Edited July 28, 201510 yr by Flaming Lea

KH doesn't have all that many big plot holesin terms of retcons, definitely the drastically decreasing value of a keyblade

Well the keyblade has always been and will be valuable... After all the only 'true' keyblade is the X-Blade since all other keyblades were manmade in the X-Blade's image excluding the Kingdom Keys. After the Keyblade War, basically the keyblades and their wielders went mostly extinct and then it wasn't until BBS when more keyblade wielders started coming back. But obviously it wasn't until Sora in KH1 and 2 when apparently everyone started getting keyblades. But Sora's keyblade is still very special since we could assume that keyblade wasn't manmade and is actually a 'true' keyblade and/or half of the X-Blade with Kingdom Key D being the other half.But back to the topic and what you said, I do understand your feeling of the decreasing value of the keyblades. Me, to be honest I don't mind all the keyblades now. The only person I thought was weird to get a keyblade was Axel/Lea.

Birth By Sleep.

 

Don't ask why.

 

Don't get me started.

 

I could write my Thesis statement on that alone.

Pretty much on the same boat here 

Well the keyblade has always been and will be valuable... After all the only 'true' keyblade is the X-Blade since all other keyblades were manmade in the X-Blade's image excluding the Kingdom Keys. After the Keyblade War, basically the keyblades and their wielders went mostly extinct and then it wasn't until BBS when more keyblade wielders started coming back. But obviously it wasn't until Sora in KH1 and 2 when apparently everyone started getting keyblades. But Sora's keyblade is still very special since we could assume that keyblade wasn't manmade and is actually a 'true' keyblade and/or half of the X-Blade with Kingdom Key D being the other half.But back to the topic and what you said, I do understand your feeling of the decreasing value of the keyblades. Me, to be honest I don't mind all the keyblades now. The only person I thought was weird to get a keyblade was Axel/Lea.

The Kingdom Keys are not part of the X-blade the X-blade is made 7 lights and 13 darknesses. The Keyblades never went extinct after the Keyblade War wielders were simply segregated due the way the universe was restructured. Also I never understood why people find Lea such an unbelievable candidate as a Keyblade wielded. At the very least he's earned it with everything he's done. He's actually done more to help out then Kairi.

The Kingdom Keys are not part of the X-blade the X-blade is made 7 lights and 13 darknesses. The Keyblades never went extinct after the Keyblade War wielders were simply segregated due the way the universe was restructured. Also I never understood why people find Lea such an unbelievable candidate as a Keyblade wielded. At the very least he's earned it with everything he's done. He's actually done more to help out then Kairi.

 

This^^ 

 

Also Lea has got quite a backstory and transformation to back this up. We see him evolve for the better with our own eyes throughout the series. With his current goals to save his friends and help stop Xehanort the keyblade is a better more useful option. Plus I bet he can still switch off with his chackrams.

Time travel was bad bc there were rules presented yet it's clear there are several different versions/ways used in the series.(two of them alone in DDD) Also it was thrown in there the last minute.

 

The way an X-blade was made was retconned from 1 light vs 1 darkness to 13 vs 7. Poorly done

 

How Riku just handed Kairi her keyblade.

 

The reports have several contradictions and retcons.( ex how the apprentices lost their hearts since DDD shows them being stabbed unvoluntarily) Also in the KH1 ansem reports there is an implication that certain reports were written by Ansem the Wise due to the fact that they could only come from his POV. In KH2 it was retconned to he only wrote the first one.

 

 

This is not a retcon or plothole. It just means he lost his heart while wearing the coat. Just like the reason he revived in the lab was bc he lost his heart there too.

 

I don't think Mickey ever met Terra? He knew about him though.

 

 

Also...Ansem was sent to the RoD not nothingness.

He was trying to turn those hearts into data not necessarily to the data world per se.

I mean, the rules only apply to that one method of time travel. Why Xehanort doesn't use a different one? Who knows

 

I actually read the X Blade report, and while this is pretty shaky, it's worth noting that the report is written right when he finds out ABOUT the X Blade, and it's entirely possible he found a more complete understanding of it later on (but still before BBS)

 

Well where the keyblade came from is an unknown obviously, but anybody can hand a keyblade to someone, and they can even hang onto it if they're a wielder

 

Considering the reports about the apprentices were written by Xehanort pretending to be Ansem, I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say he was lying, or at least twisting things a bit.

 

Considering this is the first time we've seen a Nobody reform anyways, there's nothing that says they have to use their original selves' clothes. They all seem to have kept their Org 13 ages, for example

 

Mickey didn't meet Terra, but he knew Yen Sid, and presumably went t the Keyblade Graveyard knowng the score. Why Mickey calls Terra a friend... that's just KH, really. People call each other friends the moment their eyes meet in this franchise.

 

Is there a realm of nothingness? There's a realm between, but that's just a realm between light and dark, you end up in one or the other eventually (hence why Sora and Riku end up in the ROD in KH2)

I mean, the rules only apply to that one method of time travel. Why Xehanort doesn't use a different one? Who knows

 

And? Still doesn't make it a good retcon or well done especially when two forms of it were used at the same time without proper explanation 

 

I actually read the X Blade report, and while this is pretty shaky, it's worth noting that the report is written right when he finds out ABOUT the X Blade, and it's entirely possible he found a more complete understanding of it later on (but still before BBS)

 

Ummm nope considering  in DDD he stated he knew the entire time that wasn't the right way. Grasping for straws much?

 

Well where the keyblade came from is an unknown obviously, but anybody can hand a keyblade to someone, and they can even hang onto it if they're a wielder

 

I never said they couldn't hand it to another wielder. My point was where it came from and how Riku got it. Also if you hand a nonwielder who isn't worthy a keyblade it will disappear like with Jack and Leon

 

Considering the reports about the apprentices were written by Xehanort pretending to be Ansem, I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say he was lying, or at least twisting things a bit.

 

Doesn't make it any less a retcon though

 

Considering this is the first time we've seen a Nobody reform anyways, there's nothing that says they have to use their original selves' clothes. They all seem to have kept their Org 13 ages, for example

Age prolly has more to do with them growing their hearts back . Clothes however is a diff story. It's already confirmed they would reform with what they were wearing when they lost their hearts ( by Nomura himself) Which is why we see the others in their original get ups.

 

Mickey didn't meet Terra, but he knew Yen Sid, and presumably went t the Keyblade Graveyard knowng the score. Why Mickey calls Terra a friend... that's just KH, really. People call each other friends the moment their eyes meet in this franchise.

 

 It still doesn't change the fact he still hadn't met him so don't know why you are telling me this tbh

 

Is there a realm of nothingness? There's a realm between, but that's just a realm between light and dark, you end up in one or the other eventually (hence why Sora and Riku end up in the ROD in KH2)

 

Sora and Riku aren't necesarily in the RoD in KH2. They were on the inbetween side overlooking the sea of Darkness. Also confirmed by Nomura. The RoN was where they fought the final battle with  Zebra Xemnas lolz..When they left there they were on that beach.

 

What can be called the dark coastline seen at the beginning and end of KHII is the tip of a world. It is not strictly part of the realm of darkness but rather what serves as the boundary line in between the dark and the in-between. In the ending, Sora and Riku were on the coast on the in-between side and were looking at the sea of the realm of darkness. The door visible in the dark sea is a scene that symbolizes "Deep within the darkness, there is light", as Sora said in the previous KH.

 

 

Edited July 28, 201510 yr by Flaming Lea

 

I mean, the rules only apply to that one method of time travel. Why Xehanort doesn't use a different one? Who knows

 

And? Still doesn't make it a good retcon or well done especially when two forms of it were used at the same time without proper explanation 

 

You should know I don't like the implementation of time travel at all. But it's hardly a retcon. A retcon has to be retroactive, this method of time travel wasn't introduced then changed. All it really retconned was how Xehanort was able to plan so far ahead, and really, I think we all knew something was up

 

I actually read the X Blade report, and while this is pretty shaky, it's worth noting that the report is written right when he finds out ABOUT the X Blade, and it's entirely possible he found a more complete understanding of it later on (but still before BBS)

 

Ummm nope considering  in DDD he stated he knew the entire time that wasn't the right way. Grasping for straws much?

 

I did literally say it's pretty shaky. And as far as I remember the quote just says he knew it was wrong, not that he knew literally the entire time

 

Well where the keyblade came from is an unknown obviously, but anybody can hand a keyblade to someone, and they can even hang onto it if they're a wielder

 

I never said they couldn't hand it to another wielder. My point was where it came from and how Riku got it. Also if you hand a nonwielder who isn't worthy a keyblade it will disappear like with Jack and Leon

 

This post made is what got me to post the theory that it's Xion's keyblade. Even then, a plot point not being explained isn't a plot hole or a retcon, you know this. And Kairi has wielding potential, thanks to Aqua, and obviously she''s worthy since it didn't disappear

 

Considering the reports about the apprentices were written by Xehanort pretending to be Ansem, I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say he was lying, or at least twisting things a bit.

 

Doesn't make it any less a retcon though

 

That depends on how much this was planned. Something neither of us will probably ever no. But it's worth pointing out that Ansem didn't HAVE to be the name of another guy. There's literally no reason why Ansem couldn't have been the name of Terranort. That was a specific choice.

 

Considering this is the first time we've seen a Nobody reform anyways, there's nothing that says they have to use their original selves' clothes. They all seem to have kept their Org 13 ages, for example

Age prolly has more to do with them growing their hearts back . Clothes however is a diff story. It's already confirmed they would reform with what they were wearing when they lost their hearts ( by Nomura himself) Which is why we see the others in their original get ups.

 

Well if it's confirmed it's confirmed, but when did we see others in their original get ups? 

 

Mickey didn't meet Terra, but he knew Yen Sid, and presumably went t the Keyblade Graveyard knowng the score. Why Mickey calls Terra a friend... that's just KH, really. People call each other friends the moment their eyes meet in this franchise.

 

 It still doesn't change the fact he still hadn't met him so don't know why you are telling me this tbh

 

There's nothing that would suggest Mickey doesn't know OF Terra. The only issue is Mickey calling him a friend. Mickey doesn't need to meet Terra to know about what happened, and it's integral to Mickey not recognizing Apprentice Xehanort/Xemnas/whoever as him

 

Is there a realm of nothingness? There's a realm between, but that's just a realm between light and dark, you end up in one or the other eventually (hence why Sora and Riku end up in the ROD in KH2)

 

Sora and Riku aren't in the RoD in KH2. They were on the inbetween side overlooking the sea of Darkness. Also confirmed by Nomura. The RoN was where they fought the final battle with  Zebra Xemnas lolz..When they left there they were on that beach.

So Aqua's in the realm between, too?

 

Riku just going "LOL, have dis!" and giving Kairi a Keyblade. Never made any damn sense.

Halloween Town randomly having the Tree Circle out of now where over the course of a year (yea retcon)

Xion appearing as Sora, then as herself afterwards in DDD. Even with Roxas back with him, Sora doesn't know her, neither does Roxas, so why is she just normal? Why not appear as Ventus?

Ventus (Nice that he's just screwed over forever)

Radiant Garden not having a castle that even remotely matches the ruins in KH 1 (The castle shown isn't even close, nor is it on a cliff)

 

 

I mean, the rules only apply to that one method of time travel. Why Xehanort doesn't use a different one? Who knows

 

And? Still doesn't make it a good retcon or well done especially when two forms of it were used at the same time without proper explanation 

 

You should know I don't like the implementation of time travel at all. But it's hardly a retcon. A retcon has to be retroactive, this method of time travel wasn't introduced then changed. All it really retconned was how Xehanort was able to plan so far ahead, and really, I think we all knew something was up

 

I actually read the X Blade report, and while this is pretty shaky, it's worth noting that the report is written right when he finds out ABOUT the X Blade, and it's entirely possible he found a more complete understanding of it later on (but still before BBS)

 

Ummm nope considering  in DDD he stated he knew the entire time that wasn't the right way. Grasping for straws much?

 

I did literally say it's pretty shaky. And as far as I remember the quote just says he knew it was wrong, not that he knew literally the entire time

 

Well where the keyblade came from is an unknown obviously, but anybody can hand a keyblade to someone, and they can even hang onto it if they're a wielder

 

I never said they couldn't hand it to another wielder. My point was where it came from and how Riku got it. Also if you hand a nonwielder who isn't worthy a keyblade it will disappear like with Jack and Leon

 

This post made is what got me to post the theory that it's Xion's keyblade. Even then, a plot point not being explained isn't a plot hole or a retcon, you know this. And Kairi has wielding potential, thanks to Aqua, and obviously she''s worthy since it didn't disappear

 

Considering the reports about the apprentices were written by Xehanort pretending to be Ansem, I don't think it's that much of a stretch to say he was lying, or at least twisting things a bit.

 

Doesn't make it any less a retcon though

 

That depends on how much this was planned. Something neither of us will probably ever no. But it's worth pointing out that Ansem didn't HAVE to be the name of another guy. There's literally no reason why Ansem couldn't have been the name of Terranort. That was a specific choice.

 

Considering this is the first time we've seen a Nobody reform anyways, there's nothing that says they have to use their original selves' clothes. They all seem to have kept their Org 13 ages, for example

Age prolly has more to do with them growing their hearts back . Clothes however is a diff story. It's already confirmed they would reform with what they were wearing when they lost their hearts ( by Nomura himself) Which is why we see the others in their original get ups.

 

Well if it's confirmed it's confirmed, but when did we see others in their original get ups? 

 

Mickey didn't meet Terra, but he knew Yen Sid, and presumably went t the Keyblade Graveyard knowng the score. Why Mickey calls Terra a friend... that's just KH, really. People call each other friends the moment their eyes meet in this franchise.

 

 It still doesn't change the fact he still hadn't met him so don't know why you are telling me this tbh

 

There's nothing that would suggest Mickey doesn't know OF Terra. The only issue is Mickey calling him a friend. Mickey doesn't need to meet Terra to know about what happened, and it's integral to Mickey not recognizing Apprentice Xehanort/Xemnas/whoever as him

 

Is there a realm of nothingness? There's a realm between, but that's just a realm between light and dark, you end up in one or the other eventually (hence why Sora and Riku end up in the ROD in KH2)

 

Sora and Riku aren't in the RoD in KH2. They were on the inbetween side overlooking the sea of Darkness. Also confirmed by Nomura. The RoN was where they fought the final battle with  Zebra Xemnas lolz..When they left there they were on that beach.

So Aqua's in the realm between, too?

 

 

 

 

TT is a retcon bc it was written in at last moment and retconned the previous games villains goals. So it did change things.

 

As for Xehanort knowing, he said that in his eagerness he lost sight of the correct way. That says it all.

 

I never said Kairi wasn't worthy. I was speaking in general about how others can handle someone elses keyblade and what could happen if you aren't worthy.. It's not explained and if in KH3 it's still not explained it's a plothole. Certainly this should've been explained by now. As for Xion, as of now Nomura has always stated hers was an imitation ( in interviews and in game).

 

 

As for how planned.. You know it was meant to be a standalone with a possibility of a sequel if succesful.. They later add extra reports about nobodies in the final mix bc of this.

 

Did you not see what the others were wearing when they awoke?

 

As for Terra, my point was Mickey wouldn't recognize him physically which is what the other poster was talking about. So you are arguing the same point I am? LOL

 

Aqua and Ansem were NOT on the same beach. Also confirmed by Nomura.

TT is a retcon bc it was written in at last moment and retconned the previous games villains goals. So it did change things.

 

you don't actually know the specifics. you just know it was a rushed script. you're extrapolating that to say that a change automatically equals a retcon, when it could have been planned. A retcon needs to be more direct than that, otherwise you can argue literally any plot twist is a retcon

 

As for Xehanort knowing, he said that in his eagerness he lost sight of the correct way. That says it all.

 

That fits pretty well with him getting excited and writing down incomplete information the moment he finds out about it, doesn't it?

 

I never said Kairi wasn't worthy. I was speaking in general about how others can handle someone elses keyblade and what could happen if you aren't worthy.. It's not explained and if in KH3 it's still not explained it's a plothole. Certainly this should've been explained by now. As for Xion, as of now Nomura has always stated hers was an imitation ( in interviews and in game).

 

Exactly. If. If it's not explained. And really, that's not true, it could be explained in KH4, or whatever. The only way it becomes a plot hole is if the series ends without explaining it

 

As for how planned.. You know it was meant to be a standalone with a possibility of a sequel if succesful.. They later add extra reports about nobodies in the final mix bc of this.

 

If we use the fact that t was originally meant to be a standalone game then way too much of the games can be considered a recon. It seems pretty clear to me that around KH2 they had a pretty clear idea what they wanted the story to me, and all the games have served that. the focus has been on Xehanort, and on demystifying KH. Really though, it's not like Nomura didn't have any ideas for future KH, sicne even KH1 had secret endings.

That's the problem though, we're arguing author's intent here. We don't know what Nomura made up, and what he wanted to do since day one

 

Did you not see what the others were wearing when they awoke?

 

Oh huh, I never actually noticed they weren't wearing cloaks in the first scene. In my memory it was just Lea

 

As for Terra, my point was Mickey wouldn't recognize him physically which is what the other poster was talking about. So you are arguing the same point I am? LOL

 

When does Mickey ever have to recognize Terra physically?

 

Aqua and Ansem were NOT on the same beach. Also confirmed by Nomura.

Then they shouldn't have used the same beach graphic. But even then, what makes that beach NOT the realm of darkness while another beach that's exactly the same part of it?

 

 

TT is a retcon bc it was written in at last moment and retconned the previous games villains goals. So it did change things.

 

you don't actually know the specifics. you just know it was a rushed script. you're extrapolating that to say that a change automatically equals a retcon, when it could have been planned. A retcon needs to be more direct than that, otherwise you can argue literally any plot twist is a retcon

 

He literaly told us the order in which he wrote everything and DDD was the one he said he was still writing during production. He even says this series wasn't planned out from the start. 

 

As for Xehanort knowing, he said that in his eagerness he lost sight of the correct way. That says it all.

 

That fits pretty well with him getting excited and writing down incomplete information the moment he finds out about it, doesn't it?

 

Excuses excuses. And a poor one at that.  FFS they were playing chess with pieces representing the lights and darknesses. Seriously. Stop. lolz Now I can't take you seriously.

 

I never said Kairi wasn't worthy. I was speaking in general about how others can handle someone elses keyblade and what could happen if you aren't worthy.. It's not explained and if in KH3 it's still not explained it's a plothole. Certainly this should've been explained by now. As for Xion, as of now Nomura has always stated hers was an imitation ( in interviews and in game).

 

Exactly. If. If it's not explained. And really, that's not true, it could be explained in KH4, or whatever. The only way it becomes a plot hole is if the series ends without explaining it

 

With that rationale you could say there is never plotholes bc one day it MIGHT be explained. lolz. In game 2536464 it might finally be explained guys!

 

As for how planned.. You know it was meant to be a standalone with a possibility of a sequel if succesful.. They later add extra reports about nobodies in the final mix bc of this.

 

If we use the fact that t was originally meant to be a standalone game then way too much of the games can be considered a recon. It seems pretty clear to me that around KH2 they had a pretty clear idea what they wanted the story to me, and all the games have served that. the focus has been on Xehanort, and on demystifying KH. Really though, it's not like Nomura didn't have any ideas for future KH, sicne even KH1 had secret endings.

That's the problem though, we're arguing author's intent here. We don't know what Nomura made up, and what he wanted to do since day one

 

He literally described writing the plots of these as he goes. So you keep thinking that. You even admitted DDD retconed BBS for this very reason in my other thread. Don't backpedal.

 

Did you not see what the others were wearing when they awoke?

 

Oh huh, I never actually noticed they weren't wearing cloaks in the first scene. In my memory it was just Lea

 

 

As for Terra, my point was Mickey wouldn't recognize him physically which is what the other poster was talking about. So you are arguing the same point I am? LOL

 

When does Mickey ever have to recognize Terra physically?

 

The other poster said it was a plothole that Mickey didn't recognize Xemnas bc of Terra. Like as in he should've saw Xemnas looked like Terra. No more needed explanation.

 

Aqua and Ansem were NOT on the same beach. Also confirmed by Nomura.

Then they shouldn't have used the same beach graphic. But even then, what makes that beach NOT the realm of darkness while another beach that's exactly the same part of it?

What? Take it up with Nomura. It's confirmed where they were at and it wasn't the RoD where Aqua and Ansem were.Nomura tells you EXACTLY where they are at. Go back and read it. At this point i think you are trying to bait me bc this doesn't make sense.

 

 

Edited July 28, 201510 yr by Flaming Lea

worst retcons: 

all of DDD

 

 

1) TT is a retcon bc it was written in at last moment and retconned the previous games villains goals. So it did change things.

 

you don't actually know the specifics. you just know it was a rushed script. you're extrapolating that to say that a change automatically equals a retcon, when it could have been planned. A retcon needs to be more direct than that, otherwise you can argue literally any plot twist is a retcon

 

He literaly told us the order in which he wrote everything and DDD was the one he said he was still writing during production. He even says this series wasn't planned out from the start. 

 

Alright? And? This vague statement doesn't confirm up your specific accusations, it just makes them more likely

 

2)As for Xehanort knowing, he said that in his eagerness he lost sight of the correct way. That says it all.

 

That fits pretty well with him getting excited and writing down incomplete information the moment he finds out about it, doesn't it?

 

Excuses excuses. And a poor one at that.  FFS they were playing chess with pieces representing the lights and darknesses. Seriously. Stop. lolz Now I can't you seriously.

 

Well with a counter argument like that I can see your point clearly! Obviously baby Eraqus should have picked up the chess piece and said "Ah, this clearly represents Vantitas, who will be created in like fifty years.

 

3) I never said Kairi wasn't worthy. I was speaking in general about how others can handle someone elses keyblade and what could happen if you aren't worthy.. It's not explained and if in KH3 it's still not explained it's a plothole. Certainly this should've been explained by now. As for Xion, as of now Nomura has always stated hers was an imitation ( in interviews and in game).

 

Exactly. If. If it's not explained. And really, that's not true, it could be explained in KH4, or whatever. The only way it becomes a plot hole is if the series ends without explaining it

 

With that rationale you could say there is never plotholes bc one day it MIGHT be explained. lolz

 

Not really. A plot hole is a paradox, essentially. To use a really blatant example, if it was established that wielding a keyblade with your left hand caused you to explode, and then Sora used the keyblade with his left hand and nothing happened, that's a plot hole. An unexplained plot point isn't a plot hole. A plot hole is an outright contradiction

 

4) As for how planned.. You know it was meant to be a standalone with a possibility of a sequel if succesful.. They later add extra reports about nobodies in the final mix bc of this.

 

If we use the fact that t was originally meant to be a standalone game then way too much of the games can be considered a recon. It seems pretty clear to me that around KH2 they had a pretty clear idea what they wanted the story to me, and all the games have served that. the focus has been on Xehanort, and on demystifying KH. Really though, it's not like Nomura didn't have any ideas for future KH, sicne even KH1 had secret endings.

That's the problem though, we're arguing author's intent here. We don't know what Nomura made up, and what he wanted to do since day one

 

He literally described writing the plots of these as he goes. So you keep thinking that. You even admitted DDD retconed BBS for this very reason in my other thread. Don't backpedal.

 

Writing the plot as he goes doesn't mean literally everything comes from nowhere, and it doesn't mean a plot point is a retcon just because you decide it is. I also never said that KH has no retcons. That said, with the DDD thing, I'm not backpedaling. I found some extra info, and adjusted my view accordingly. The journal entry leaves enough open for it to not be a definite thing. I already said it's shaky, stop acting like I'm outright saying you're wrong

 

5) Did you not see what the others were wearing when they awoke?

 

Oh huh, I never actually noticed they weren't wearing cloaks in the first scene. In my memory it was just Lea

 

 

6) As for Terra, my point was Mickey wouldn't recognize him physically which is what the other poster was talking about. So you are arguing the same point I am? LOL

 

When does Mickey ever have to recognize Terra physically?

 

The other poster said it was a plothole that Mickey didn't recognize Xemnas bc of Terra. Like as in he should've saw Xemnas looked like Terra. No more needed explanation.

 

oh okay

 

7) Aqua and Ansem were NOT on the same beach. Also confirmed by Nomura.

Then they shouldn't have used the same beach graphic. But even then, what makes that beach NOT the realm of darkness while another beach that's exactly the same part of it?

What? Take it up with Nomura. It's confirmed where they were at and it wasn't the RoD where Aqua and Ansem were.Nomura tells you EXACTLY where they are at. Go back and read it. At this point i think you are trying to bait me bc this doesn't make sense.

I'm just venting about a lazy point. just because I mentioned it in a post involving you doesn't mean it's directed at you. I'm just adding on to your point by saying it's poorly executed.

 

 

 

 

 

1) TT is a retcon bc it was written in at last moment and retconned the previous games villains goals. So it did change things.

 

you don't actually know the specifics. you just know it was a rushed script. you're extrapolating that to say that a change automatically equals a retcon, when it could have been planned. A retcon needs to be more direct than that, otherwise you can argue literally any plot twist is a retcon

 

He literaly told us the order in which he wrote everything and DDD was the one he said he was still writing during production. He even says this series wasn't planned out from the start. 

 

Alright? And? This vague statement doesn't confirm up your specific accusations, it just makes them more likely

 

2)As for Xehanort knowing, he said that in his eagerness he lost sight of the correct way. That says it all.

 

That fits pretty well with him getting excited and writing down incomplete information the moment he finds out about it, doesn't it?

 

Excuses excuses. And a poor one at that.  FFS they were playing chess with pieces representing the lights and darknesses. Seriously. Stop. lolz Now I can't you seriously.

 

Well with a counter argument like that I can see your point clearly! Obviously baby Eraqus should have picked up the chess piece and said "Ah, this clearly represents Vantitas, who will be created in like fifty years.

 

3) I never said Kairi wasn't worthy. I was speaking in general about how others can handle someone elses keyblade and what could happen if you aren't worthy.. It's not explained and if in KH3 it's still not explained it's a plothole. Certainly this should've been explained by now. As for Xion, as of now Nomura has always stated hers was an imitation ( in interviews and in game).

 

Exactly. If. If it's not explained. And really, that's not true, it could be explained in KH4, or whatever. The only way it becomes a plot hole is if the series ends without explaining it

 

With that rationale you could say there is never plotholes bc one day it MIGHT be explained. lolz

 

Not really. A plot hole is a paradox, essentially. To use a really blatant example, if it was established that wielding a keyblade with your left hand caused you to explode, and then Sora used the keyblade with his left hand and nothing happened, that's a plot hole. An unexplained plot point isn't a plot hole. A plot hole is an outright contradiction

 

4) As for how planned.. You know it was meant to be a standalone with a possibility of a sequel if succesful.. They later add extra reports about nobodies in the final mix bc of this.

 

If we use the fact that t was originally meant to be a standalone game then way too much of the games can be considered a recon. It seems pretty clear to me that around KH2 they had a pretty clear idea what they wanted the story to me, and all the games have served that. the focus has been on Xehanort, and on demystifying KH. Really though, it's not like Nomura didn't have any ideas for future KH, sicne even KH1 had secret endings.

That's the problem though, we're arguing author's intent here. We don't know what Nomura made up, and what he wanted to do since day one

 

He literally described writing the plots of these as he goes. So you keep thinking that. You even admitted DDD retconed BBS for this very reason in my other thread. Don't backpedal.

 

Writing the plot as he goes doesn't mean literally everything comes from nowhere, and it doesn't mean a plot point is a retcon just because you decide it is. I also never said that KH has no retcons. That said, with the DDD thing, I'm not backpedaling. I found some extra info, and adjusted my view accordingly. The journal entry leaves enough open for it to not be a definite thing. I already said it's shaky, stop acting like I'm outright saying you're wrong

 

5) Did you not see what the others were wearing when they awoke?

 

Oh huh, I never actually noticed they weren't wearing cloaks in the first scene. In my memory it was just Lea

 

 

6) As for Terra, my point was Mickey wouldn't recognize him physically which is what the other poster was talking about. So you are arguing the same point I am? LOL

 

When does Mickey ever have to recognize Terra physically?

 

The other poster said it was a plothole that Mickey didn't recognize Xemnas bc of Terra. Like as in he should've saw Xemnas looked like Terra. No more needed explanation.

 

oh okay

 

7) Aqua and Ansem were NOT on the same beach. Also confirmed by Nomura.

Then they shouldn't have used the same beach graphic. But even then, what makes that beach NOT the realm of darkness while another beach that's exactly the same part of it?

What? Take it up with Nomura. It's confirmed where they were at and it wasn't the RoD where Aqua and Ansem were.Nomura tells you EXACTLY where they are at. Go back and read it. At this point i think you are trying to bait me bc this doesn't make sense.

I'm just venting about a lazy point. just because I mentioned it in a post involving you doesn't mean it's directed at you. I'm just adding on to your point by saying it's poorly executed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

1.. Grasping for straws

 

2-Grasping for straws. Eraqus wasn't even a baby. Wow LOL The fact they were talking about the prophecy shows they knew about the 20 pieces( bc the Xblade was broken into it)  The chess pieces were symbolic of the 20 ..Who the 20 are is Nomura's clues and doing.

 

3- A plothole is also something that is unexplained and contradicts previous info. How Kairi got handed her keyblade doesn't make sense on how people generally get theirs.

 

4- What extra info? Not. And clearly DDD is a huge retcon. I never said EVERY SINGLE thing was a retcon in this series.He does write as he goes and he says so. 

Edited July 28, 201510 yr by Flaming Lea