I'm bored so here's another one of Winner's once in a blue moon topics. A serious one this time. Gotta spice things up, you know?

 

So, there's a Keyblade War, right? And it nearly wipes out the entire goddamned Realm of Light. Entire worlds -- innocent worlds -- are consumed by the fighting, and Kingdom Hearts itself is lost in the Realm of Darkness, never to be seen again. People cling to the last bits of light they have and eventually rebuild the world into something vaguely sustainable.And then comes this asshat who wants to do the whole thing all over again, knowing full well that there's every chance he might snuff out the last lingering bits of light in the process.That's not a good goal.Square Enix says he wants to spark war against the tyranny of light to restore equilibrium. The entire idea that there's even a "tyranny of light" in the first place is stupid. Yes, most people in the Realm of Light believe in light and shun the darkness, but that's not tyranny. That's survival. There's not a whole lot of light left in the world after the original Keyblade War. They're basically just safekeeping what little remains.

 

I'd go as far to say as this equilibrium he's supposedly after is just a silly justification for starting another damn war. But that's none of my business though. *sips Lipton tea*

https://imgflip.com/i/aisvz you might want this

I beg to differ- I'd say what he's doing is the single, most greatest act in our lifetime

 

By trying to restore darkness to the worlds, his actions have single-handedly created the most amazing video game series I have ever played

I'll have to agree with you.

Really?  Aside from that tidbit you mentioned about equilibrium, I haven't seen anyone give Master Xehanort the Draco in Leather Pants treatment--and not just because seeing the old bastard in leather pants would induce nightmares.

 

I assume that an alleged tyranny of light could've been a legitimate thing, long ago, before all the wars broke out and wrecked shit up.  In the game's present time, though, I kinda have to agree the equilibrium thing sounds more like a convenient excuse for Xehanort to wreck lives/existence FOR SCIENCE.

Winner knows what's up!

I've always wondered that.  

 

"Why start another f**king Keyblade War?! Why Xehanort.. why...

The whole tyranny of light thing is more Xehanort's idea than Square's I think. After all, Xehanort is an old coot corrupted by darkness, so his logic may be a bit... flawed.

...Well, Xehanort was pro-darkness and others (ex. Eraqus) discriminated against said darkness; that could have contributed to his ideas. But yeah, he's cray.

Really?  Aside from that tidbit you mentioned about equilibrium, I haven't seen anyone give Master Xehanort the Draco in Leather Pants treatment--and not just because seeing the old bastard in leather pants would induce nightmares.

 

I assume that an alleged tyranny of light could've been a legitimate thing, long ago, before all the wars broke out and wrecked shit up.  In the game's present time, though, I kinda have to agree the equilibrium thing sounds more like a convenient excuse for Xehanort to wreck lives/existence FOR SCIENCE.

I think what Winners Proof meant by people who think Xehanorts ambitions and methods of achieving them aren't bad are either "Fans(stupid ones at that)" and "The new Org. XIII". Probably Winner is talking about some fans though.

Word of the day award goes to Winner's Proof.

 

Word Used: Baffle.

I'm bored so here's another one of Winner's once in a blue moon topics. A serious one this time. Gotta spice things up, you know?

 

So, there's a Keyblade War, right? And it nearly wipes out the entire goddamned Realm of Light. Entire worlds -- innocent worlds -- are consumed by the fighting, and Kingdom Hearts itself is lost in the Realm of Darkness, never to be seen again. People cling to the last bits of light they have and eventually rebuild the world into something vaguely sustainable.And then comes this asshat who wants to do the whole thing all over again, knowing full well that there's every chance he might snuff out the last lingering bits of light in the process.That's not a good goal.Square Enix says he wants to spark war against the tyranny of light to restore equilibrium. The entire idea that there's even a "tyranny of light" in the first place is stupid. Yes, most people in the Realm of Light believe in light and shun the darkness, but that's not tyranny. That's survival. There's not a whole lot of light left in the world after the original Keyblade War. They're basically just safekeeping what little remains.

 

I'd go as far to say as this equilibrium he's supposedly after is just a silly justification for starting another damn war. But that's none of my business though. *sips Lipton tea*

I have one thing to say to you:Play any Shin Megami Tensei game ^_^

 

where literally both sides aren't inheritly good or evil depending on how you see their ideals

Because causing genocide and the impending apocalypse "for science " is a great idea. Good thing he's such a fail villain .

Since when RPG villains have logical reasons to do what they are doing? Xehanort is the evil here, he is not a well intentioned extremist, if he wants a War it really doesnt matter if the reasons are rigth or not. They want us to have an interesting villain to hate because of his manipulative bastard skills, his backup trolling plans, which almost erased al existence of Ventus, Terra and Aqua and all the evil he inspire.

 

He wants to  have an equlibrium between ligth and dark because he thinks that the Darknees has always been in a second place. But he also wants that War because of pure curiosity; he wants to witness what a new War would bring to the KHverse, what would remain, what would be the state of all things after the conflict, and no less important, he wants to know if the precious ligth that the legend speaks off will appear within the darkness that the Keyblade War would bring.

 

Its pure and egoistic curiosity, he is desperated to witness all that before he dies and nothing will stop him to obtain what he wants.

 

I find it interesting and I dont see any problem with it.

Edited July 22, 201411 yr by DarkniteX

Attitude much?  :tongue:

 

You have to understand that from Xehanort's perspective, the roles of light and dark in the world have been heavily biased. We've seen that both light and dark aren't inherently good or bad, it's up to the person themself to decide how to use them. However, because of how much the remaining light was cherished, everybody came to think that light was good and dark was bad, end of discussion. Xehanort, being taught by his master how dangerous, evil, and corrupting darkness could be, came to see that there was another nature to darkness that nobody else seemed to acknowledge. He found that the darkness could give him power as well. However, as he kept getting closer to darkness, he began to feel that the darkness didn't have the same presence and power as light in the current world, so he felt that things weren't "in balance". He felt that the light was more prominent and powerful than the dark and that it wasn't equal. So by that conclusion, he figured that the only way to bring true balance to the world would be to change it so that there was an equal presence of both light and dark. Since he viewed that there was "too much" light in the world already, he felt that by aligning himself toward darkness would grant him the power to cause a surplus of darkness to counter the light. However, he seems to think that by flooding the light with darkness the world would restore itself anew and that light and darkness will have an equal presence, or that by being the catalyst of the event he will gain god-like powers that will allow him to shape the world into his balanced image. Either case though could potentially mean the "death" of the remaining light and a sole existing source of darkness, whether Xehanort realizes it or not.

 

You seem to be under the impression that Xehanort is AWARE that he might destroy the light forever and wants nothing but darkness and only darkness, but I think you are sorely simplifying the character. Xehanort is not pure-evil, he doesn't wish for darkness to be the only force in the world. His ambitions are malevolent, yes, but he started out as a curious and inquisitive youth who felt that he saw injustice with the order of the world. He seems to be under the impression that what he is doing is right. He understands that not everybody agrees with it, but nonetheless he still believes that in the end only he is right. He's an intelligent man with a bold ambition, but unfortunately a large ego and a misguided understanding of the world. Not to mention the fact that darkness can corrupt an individual if it isn't handled properly. Xehanort may have gained vast mastery over his dark powers, but in the end he's still just as corrupted by them as Riku could have been. Basically, he's a smart man with a well-meaning end-goal but has no remaining sense of compassion and doesn't care what he has to do to meet his goals. He's not just some 2-dimensional bad guy looking for wanton destruction and chaos, or the single extreme of all darkness and no light. To him, he actually FEELS that he is achieving balance. He just seems to be under the impression that things will go his way once the event happens.

 

Also, there is his insatiable curiosity to see just what comes after the Keyblade War. I have to admit that I'm a little curious myself, but I'm not about to destroy the current world and millions of lives just to get the answer. That's what the games are for! lol X3

 

Truly, he is a man maddened by curiosity.

I beg to differ- I'd say what he's doing is the single, most greatest act in our lifetime

By trying to restore darkness to the worlds, his actions have single-handedly created the most amazing video game series I have ever played

Also, this. 

Edited July 22, 201411 yr by Hero of Light XIV

I beg to differ- I'd say what he's doing is the single, most greatest act in our lifetime

 

By trying to restore darkness to the worlds, his actions have single-handedly created the most amazing video game series I have ever played

...You got me.

 

Really?  Aside from that tidbit you mentioned about equilibrium, I haven't seen anyone give Master Xehanort the Draco in Leather Pants treatment--and not just because seeing the old bastard in leather pants would induce nightmares.

 

I assume that an alleged tyranny of light could've been a legitimate thing, long ago, before all the wars broke out and wrecked shit up.  In the game's present time, though, I kinda have to agree the equilibrium thing sounds more like a convenient excuse for Xehanort to wreck lives/existence FOR SCIENCE.

I saw some posts on here talking about how he's noble in his goals and not all bad. Then there's TVTropes listing him as a Well Intentioned Extremist which I must disagree.

 

 

Winner knows what's up!

 

LMAO fantastic! Thank you.

 

I've always wondered that.  

 

"Why start another f**king Keyblade War?! Why Xehanort.. why...

 

I guess cause no one would really be able to see in the resulting darkness so it makes it easier for him to sneak up on kids.

 

Because causing genocide and the impending apocalypse "for science " is a great idea. Good thing he's such a fail villain .

Thank you!

Edited July 22, 201411 yr by Winner's Proof

 

I saw some posts on here talking about how he's noble in his goals and not all bad. Then there's TVTropes listing him as a Well Intentioned Extremist which I must disagree.

 

Exactly. I firmly believe that he - originally - fit that description. But somewhere down the line, the man lost his marbles. Not all of his marbles, but just enough to shed any basic moral reasoning and go full-evil. 

Edited July 22, 201411 yr by Kaweebo

...but I like the way he wiggles his fingers!

Attitude much?  :tongue:

 

You have to understand that from Xehanort's perspective, the roles of light and dark in the world have been heavily biased. We've seen that both light and dark aren't inherently good or bad, it's up to the person themself to decide how to use them. However, because of how much the remaining light was cherished, everybody came to think that light was good and dark was bad, end of discussion. Xehanort, being taught by his master how dangerous, evil, and corrupting darkness could be, came to see that there was another nature to darkness that nobody else seemed to acknowledge. He found that the darkness could give him power as well. However, as he kept getting closer to darkness, he began to feel that the darkness didn't have the same presence and power as light in the current world, so he felt that things weren't "in balance". He felt that the light was more prominent and powerful and the dark and that it wasn't equal. So by that conclusion, he figured that the only way to bring true balance to the world would be to change it so that there was an equal presence of both light and dark. Since he viewed that there was "too much" light in the world already, he felt that by aligning himself toward darkness would grant him the power to cause a surplus of darkness to counter the light. However, he seems to think that by flooding the light with darkness the world would restore itself anew and that light and darkness will have an equal presence, or that by being the catalyst of the event he will gain god-like powers that will allow him to shape the world into his balanced image. Either case though could potentially mean the "death" of the remaining light and a sole existing source of darkness, whether Xehanort realizes it or not.

 

You seem to be under the impression that Xehanort is AWARE that he might destroy the light forever and wants nothing but darkness and only darkness, but I think you are sorely simplifying the character. Xehanort is not pure-evil, he doesn't wish for darkness to be the only force in the world. His ambitions are malevolent, yes, but he started out as a curious and inquisitive youth who felt that he saw injustice with the order of the world. He seems to be under the impression that what he is doing is right. He understands that not everybody agrees with it, but nonetheless he still believes that in the end only he is right. He's an intelligent man with a bold ambition, but unfortunately a large ego and a misguided understanding of the world. Not to mention the fact that darkness can corrupt an individual if it isn't handled properly. Xehanort may have gained vast mastery over his dark powers, but in the end he's still just as corrupted by them as Riku could have been. Basically, he's a smart man with a well-meaning end-goal but has no remaining sense of compassion and doesn't care what he has to do to meet his goals. He's not just some 2-dimensional bad guy looking for wanton destruction and chaos, or the single extreme of all darkness and no light. To him, he actually FEELS that he is achieving balance. He just seems to be under the impression that things will go his way once the event happens.

Also, this. 

 

Apologies, it's how daddy raised me.

 

Thanks for your detailed reply. Yeah about the "too much light" thing that's just a huge WTF. Darkness is devouring worlds as we speak, very little light remains and he sees that there's "too much"? How?! And Xehanort is aware that what he's doing might destroy the light forever, it's common sense. The last Keyblade War almost did just that so obviously doing it again, when there is much less light remaining will only secure this fate. In fact, in his own words he says "ruin brings creation" so he's expecting the world to become swallowed in darkness and turn to ashes, that's a complete disregard for all life. It'd be the equivalent of me killing almost everyone on Earth just to see if the new civilizaition builds something more grandiose. It's a complete disregard for the well being of all living things. Yes he's corrupted by darkness now but ever believing there was too much light and believing something needed to be done about it, particularly something that endagers life,sounds like a big no no.

The point of Xehanort's character is exactly that; he is selfishness incarnate. He values nothing but his own life, his own morbid curiosity. You have to understand that he has absolutely no regard for anyone that might end up dying as a result of his crackpot plan, not even his oldest friend. The fact that he was willing to personally kill Eraqus, his closest friend since childhood( think something along the lines of Riku killing Sora, willingly) proves that he's so far gone that he isn't even rational anymore.

 

The point of this thread is apparently to decry anyone who supports what Xehanort is doing, and I wholeheartedly condone your intent. There is no excusing Xehanort's actions, because frankly we're not supposed too. I wouldn't go so far as to say that these are negatives of his CHARACTER, however, because this is probably all that he was intended to be; a twisted old man with nothing to give or lose, but everything to take.

Xehanort IS a well-intentioned extremist, or rather, he started out as one. He wants to bring balance, not because there is too much light, but because both light and darkness are natural facets of the world and need to be equal. That's what he's after, he doesn't like that the world isn't equal when it logically should be if light and darkness are both important. If you read his reports in Birth by Sleep, you see that he questions how he could bring about this balance and decides that the Keyblade War is the best way to do so, even if it'll destroy everything. He acknowledges this, but he is curious to see what'll happen if a second Keyblade War happens. He's doing this because he honestly believes that this is for the greater good of everyone. His good intentions, however, became lost after years of dabbling in the darkness, where his thirst for knowledge and power greatly overtook his original intentions.

 

He also showed compassion after ripping Ventus' darkness out and wants to originally leave him somewhere where he can die in peace, but when Ventus shows signs of recovering, he instead leaves him with Eraqus. Who, despite their fight years earlier, Xehanort still describes Eraqus as a brother and someone he can trust to raise Ventus. While by this point he is corrupted by darkness, he's still got his compassion left to him, even if he had already decided to also take Terra's body when he left Ventus at the Land of Departure. But by the time of the games events, he has lost all of that because he has become so corrupted.

 

We're not meant to agree with him, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have reasons that are explained in story and it's not Square Enix that's portraying him as in the right. Again, he's the villain of the story and the heroes are trying to prevent the Keyblade War. Where do you get that Square Enix is the one who thinks he's right when it's clearly some group of people on the internet who do?

Edited July 22, 201411 yr by NemesisSP

Well said.

 

Well since we're on the topic of Xehanort I guess I'll put in my two cents about him:

 

One thing I noticed that was interesting was Xehanort's mindset toward the people he hurt. If you look at his reports in BBS, he clearly has a sort of remorse for what he did to the others, at first. But it's easy to tell that his mindset was that of a "The end justifies the means" kinda thing, and this mindset grew in him more and more (along with the darkness twisting him), until he was at the point where he was in BBS where he didn't care whose lives he trampled over. 

 

This is what I like about him: his purpose is simply the pursuit of knowledge, AKA accessing Kingdom Hearts and becoming one with it. It's not some generic "i will rule teh wourld" or "i will get mah revennnge on [insert main character here]!!!!11!" attempt. That makes him a good villain methinks. After all, the pursuit of understanding of the universe is a very human desire. This isn't to say that Xehanort is even close to being a relateable character in any sense of the word, but it does let me at least see that he's different than a lot of villains I've seen nowadays and has a somewhat reasonable motivation, even if the means to achieve that motivation are pure evil.

 

I also like how he makes it very personal with the characters. With a lot of villains that I've seen, they seem to just do their thing and the main characters are often just a group that decides to fight back because their world's at stake or whatever. Xehanort hit these people where it hurts. Like Roxas and Xion, or T/A/V didn't even have remotely happy endings thanks to him. At least not yet.

 

Also, points for being quite possibly the most persistent and crafty villain that I've heard of. At least that I can think of right now.

I'm bored so here's another one of Winner's once in a blue moon topics. A serious one this time. Gotta spice things up, you know?

 

So, there's a Keyblade War, right? And it nearly wipes out the entire goddamned Realm of Light. Entire worlds -- innocent worlds -- are consumed by the fighting, and Kingdom Hearts itself is lost in the Realm of Darkness, never to be seen again. People cling to the last bits of light they have and eventually rebuild the world into something vaguely sustainable.And then comes this asshat who wants to do the whole thing all over again, knowing full well that there's every chance he might snuff out the last lingering bits of light in the process.That's not a good goal.Square Enix says he wants to spark war against the tyranny of light to restore equilibrium. The entire idea that there's even a "tyranny of light" in the first place is stupid. Yes, most people in the Realm of Light believe in light and shun the darkness, but that's not tyranny. That's survival. There's not a whole lot of light left in the world after the original Keyblade War. They're basically just safekeeping what little remains.

 

I'd go as far to say as this equilibrium he's supposedly after is just a silly justification for starting another damn war. But that's none of my business though. *sips Lipton tea*

Who are you to contradict HMK's theory about Xehanort being good? Pff, uninformed fans nowadays.

The point of Xehanort's character is exactly that; he is selfishness incarnate. He values nothing but his own life, his own morbid curiosity. You have to understand that he has absolutely no regard for anyone that might end up dying as a result of his crackpot plan, not even his oldest friend. The fact that he was willing to personally kill Eraqus, his closest friend since childhood( think something along the lines of Riku killing Sora, willingly) proves that he's so far gone that he isn't even rational anymore.

Well aware of all this. It's pretty much why this topic exists. 

The point of this thread is apparently to decry anyone who supports what Xehanort is doing, and I wholeheartedly condone your intent. There is no excusing Xehanort's actions, because frankly we're not supposed too. I wouldn't go so far as to say that these are negatives of his CHARACTER, however, because this is probably all that he was intended to be; a twisted old man with nothing to give or lose, but everything to take.

 Please don't tell the point of my own topic, I know that better than anyone. Considering how I haven't mocked or painted in a bad light anyone who supports Xehanort, then no I'm not out to decry whoever supports him and they're free support him if they want. Some people like to see villains win. His goal just isn't noble and the topic is to say why it's not. 

He also showed compassion after ripping Ventus' darkness out and wants to originally leave him somewhere where he can die in peace, but when Ventus shows signs of recovering, he instead leaves him with Eraqus. Who, despite their fight years earlier, Xehanort still describes Eraqus as a brother and someone he can trust to raise Ventus. While by this point he is corrupted by darkness, he's still got his compassion left to him, even if he had already decided to also take Terra's body when he left Ventus at the Land of Departure. But by the time of the games events, he has lost all of that because he has become so corrupted.

Not what happened. He left Ven on Destiny Islands to die after he tried to force him to do something he wasn't ready to do. He walked away but when he saw Ven summon a Keyblade and shoot out a ray of light, Xehanort decided he could still be of use someday and then dumped him on Eraqus until he could make use of him again. It doesn't even matter that he once had compassion I don't see why people are saying that the point is what he's currently doing is endangering all living things. He could've once been nicer than Ned Flanders but his goal now isn't noble, that's the point. It hasn't been since the moment he thought there was "too much" light and something needed to be done about it. Then due to the whole Time Travel retcon, Young Master Xehanort as a man who looks about 20 is on this path to swallowing everything in darkness. So from his young self to his current self that's about 50 or 60 years of no nobility. 

We're not meant to agree with him, but that doesn't mean he doesn't have reasons that are explained in story and it's not Square Enix that's portraying him as in the right. Again, he's the villain of the story and the heroes are trying to prevent the Keyblade War. Where do you get that Square Enix is the one who thinks he's right when it's clearly some group of people on the internet who do?

I didn't say Square Enix thinks he's right. I just quoted their phrase of tyranny of light and said I don't agree with the concept. I'm well aware that they're speaking from Xehanort's perspective. I even told Dracozombie that I saw people HERE say it, I'm well aware its some fans mostly who think this.

Who are you to contradict HMK's theory about Xehanort being good? Pff, uninformed fans nowadays.

Are you saying hmk isnt uninformed?

 

Winner you should open a youtube account. That's how you get people to believe you. Even if it's complete bullshit.

Are you saying hmk isnt uninformed?

 

Winner you should open a youtube account. That's how you get people to believe you. Even if it's complete bullshit.

I was sarcastically stating, like I sense you did as well in your last lines, that HMK often throws bullshit on the internet and that Winner is totally right

Edited July 22, 201411 yr by Keyblader_95

Well said. Well since we're on the topic of Xehanort I guess I'll put in my two cents about him: One thing I noticed that was interesting was Xehanort's mindset toward the people he hurt. If you look at his reports in BBS, he clearly has a sort of remorse for what he did to the others, at first. But it's easy to tell that his mindset was that of a "The end justifies the means" kinda thing, and this mindset grew in him more and more (along with the darkness twisting him), until he was at the point where he was in BBS where he didn't care whose lives he trampled over.  This is what I like about him: his purpose is simply the pursuit of knowledge, AKA accessing Kingdom Hearts and becoming one with it. It's not some generic "i will rule teh wourld" or "i will get mah revennnge on [insert main character here]!!!!11!" attempt. That makes him a good villain methinks. After all, the pursuit of understanding of the universe is a very human desire. This isn't to say that Xehanort is even close to being a relateable character in any sense of the word, but it does let me at least see that he's different than a lot of villains I've seen nowadays and has a somewhat reasonable motivation, even if the means to achieve that motivation are pure evil. I also like how he makes it very personal with the characters. With a lot of villains that I've seen, they seem to just do their thing and the main characters are often just a group that decides to fight back because their world's at stake or whatever. Xehanort hit these people where it hurts. Like Roxas and Xion, or T/A/V didn't even have remotely happy endings thanks to him. At least not yet. Also, points for being quite possibly the most persistent and crafty villain that I've heard of. At least that I can think of right now.

 

Yeah as a villain I definitely find him interesting and that part of your post where you said he hits characters where it hurts, on a real personal level was a nice eye opener. Never quite thought of that being something that separates Xehanort from a lot of other RPG or anime villains. Very good point, thanks. Makes me appreciate him more. 

 

Would like, but quota. 

Who are you to contradict HMK's theory about Xehanort being good? Pff, uninformed fans nowadays.

 

Who am I? I'm the guy with common sense. HMK's the other guy.

 

Are you saying hmk isnt uninformed?  Winner you should open a youtube account. That's how you get people to believe you. Even if it's complete bullshit.

Damn quota. I'm dying here! xDDD