Death Is Meaningless In Kingdom Hearts

[ShadowKeyblade 219]

It not being fair and them not having happy endings is what made it so great. The point of dying in stories is to get an emotional response out of your audience. Emotional responses = being more attached to the story and loving it more because it's impacted you. The point of death is that it's sad! Death is tragic. Death isn't a happy ending. That's what makes it good.

You're saying Roxas, Namine, and Xion didn't have tragic stories in because of the fact that they could come back? Terra, Ven, and Aqua seriously got screwed over, but none of them died, and yet that got an emotional response out of people. 

 

Death also does not necessarily make a story great. Everyone and their mothers is trying to follow Game of Thrones' style of killing everyone off in recent years, so much that it's honestly gotten pretty tired. It's nice to have something that doesn't do that once in awhile. And you know what? KH does something better than blatantly killing someone off. It damages them, takes them out of the picture for a certain time, but they can come back and learn from those experiences, become better people. Hardship is what makes a story interesting and emotional, not specifically death.

Edited August 23, 2016 by ShadowKeyblade

[Firaga 5,947]

Yes, there are other ways to spawn conflict or drama. Since this is the case, then why do they even have characters die in this series? There is no point to it. They act like we should be sad about it. They act like they're emotional moments, but they aren't since we know they can just come back. It's terrible writing.

 

The act of death is used more as a metaphorical device than it is something then the concept we perceive it as in real life. It's not about you literally losing your life, it's about the cycle of pain and discomfort one may feel when they lose connection with others. The KH Universe doesn't work on the same rules that we do. It's not terrible writing if it is simply following its own unique sense of logic. And as ShadowKeyblade pointed out above me, the tragedy of their stories is not diminished simply because they did not stay dead.

 

You're acting like the whole plot point of "Those Who Must Be Saved" has been around the entire time. It hasn't. Dream Drop Distance implemented it. We thought Roxas, Xion, Namine, Axel, etc. were all dead for good before DDD came along!

They didn't want hearts until DDD said that they did. They had a happy ending in KH2. The whole point of that scene when Roxas and Namine formed back together with Sora and Kairi was to show that they got a happy ending. They get to be together whenever Sora and Kairi are together. They were happy. They had a happy ending, until DDD said that they didn't. 

 

Actually, Coded implemented the idea. Coded introduced the idea that Roxas, Namine, Axel, etc were all hurting and needed to be saved by Sora, a game that originally released before even 358/2 Days was released.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Firaga Sensei

[Elfdemon_ 695]

If I've said it once, I've said it a thousand times Kingdom Hearts fans have serious death fetish. It's pretty scary actually lol. Death does equate good story. It is not a necessary element needed to create drama or add layers of depth to a story. Quite frankly, too much death can actually take away from a story. It essentially turns into the same redundancy as not enough death. If characters are constantly dying, people get desensitized to it, and it still ends up meaningless. Plus. how invested are you really going to get into the characters of any series, if you know that people get killed off right and left. Having tons of death for the sake of a mature tone is juvenile and bad writing.

 

If you really want to get technical about it, there is only one KH original character who went through anything remotely close to the finality of death. That character was Riku-Replica. All the other characters were alternative forms of existence, and none of them were human. All of them had ties to their previous existence as humans. So could they ever really "die"? The Nobody/ Heartless revival mechanism is actually pretty sound. It's one of the few retcons of Nomura, that makes sense and fits into canon. Both of those existences, especially Nobodies, were always portrayed as incomplete. Basic logic would suggest that those existences had the ability of being restored as a whole. Especially because we see that it's possible with Sora/Roxas and Kairi/Namine.

 

On the topic of Roxas and Namine, neither of them "died". Nor can what they went through ever be construed as death.They were simply reunited with their other halves, as the laws of their type of existence constituted. But they, themselves still exist. Why? Because while they walked around in their borrowed shells, they grew their own hearts and created identities of their own. Roxas' physical existence might have belonged to Sora but he created his own existence, completely separate from Sora. Hence why he still has a presence within Sora, despite "dying". Namine and Xion are no different.

 

Don't even get me started on Xion. I don't get how people can say that Xion's "death"  would be less meaningful if she was revived. Xion's death is made virtually inconsequential by the end of the game, due to the fact that everybody forgets she existed in the first place. Hell, if Xion was excluded from revival, her entire existence would be meaningless. All Xion's existence really accomplished was adding a layer of development to Roxas and adding another person to the list of people to save. Sorry in advance to the Xion fans, but that is the reality of the matter. Apart from that, she didn't really "die" either, she returned to Sora, from whom she was created. Even after being being physically destroyed she was still had a presence and was even able to influence Riku. Her final words even imply, that though she's physically gone, she is not truly gone.

 

As for the Disney characters, I think you're really stretching to make your point. Maleficent is a witch, a powerful witch at that. It makes sense that she could easily revive, and have power over death. Look at her minions, if they aren't some form of demons, I don't know what is. Hell Freddy Krueger, one of the most beloved horror icons of all time revives in the exact same fashion, so it's not unheard of. Also Ursula wasn't dead in Dream Drop Distance, remember Sora and Riku went back in time, to before they left Destiny Islands. So she wasn't dead yet.

 

Overall, I think the concept of death is something Nomura has always been careful about. It's one of the few consistencies of the series. Changing it now would be senseless, and ruin the story that he's trying to tell. There is zero point and building up a story about saving and reuniting those who have been lost, then destroying it by senselessly killing off characters.

 

 

 

 

 

Lol, this so true. Hades is my favorite Disney Villain too lol.

 

I'd say many KH fans have a "death fetish" because they are so deprived of it. Yes, there are other means of making drama or conflict, but they constantly have characters die, then completely backpedal on it. They've been dangling death in front of us and when we get it, they reveal to us that it wasn't actually death. It's one of the most unsatisfying things you can do in stories and writing. They get an emotional response from you and then completely undermine and stomp on that emotional response.

You're saying Roxas, Namine, and Xion didn't have tragic stories in because of the fact that they could come back? Terra, Ven, and Aqua seriously got screwed over, but none of them died, and yet that got an emotional response out of people. 

 

Death also does not necessarily make a story great. Everyone and their mothers is trying to follow Game of Thrones' style of killing everyone off in recent years, so much that it's honestly gotten pretty tired. It's nice to have something that doesn't do that once in awhile. And you know what? KH does something better than blatantly killing someone off. It damages them, takes them out of the picture for a certain time, but they can come back and learn from those experiences, become better people. Hardship is what makes a story interesting and emotional, not specifically death.

 

In stories, having a character die can get the biggest emotional response possible from the audience. They get the emotional response out of their audience, then they completely undermine and stomp on that emotional response. It's extremely unsatisfying. Roxas and Namine had happy endings. The whole purpose of that scene in KH2 when Namine and Roxas formed back with Sora and Kairi was to show that they got a happy ending. In DDD though, they backpedal and say that they are unhappy and still have things they want to do.

[Firaga 5,947]

In DDD though, they backpedal and say that they are unhappy and still have things they want to do.

 

I just told you that the idea that they were unhappy was brought up in Coded, not DDD.

 

Also, is it really a happy ending if they can clearly operate as their own people but have no other choice in at that time to be stuck in someone else's subconscious?

Edited August 23, 2016 by Firaga Sensei

[Elfdemon_ 695]

The act of death is used more as a metaphorical device than it is something then the concept we perceive it as in real life. It's not about you literally losing your life, it's about the cycle of pain and discomfort one may feel when they lose connection with others. The KH Universe doesn't work on the same rules that we do. It's not terrible writing if it is simply following its own unique sense of logic. And as ShadowKeyblade pointed out above me, the tragedy of their stories is not diminished simply because they did not stay dead.

 

 

Wrong. Coded implemented the idea. Coded introduced the idea that Roxas, Namine, Axel, etc were all hurting and needed to be saved by Sora, a game that originally released before even 358/2 Days was released.

 

Yes, it's simply following its own unique sense of logic, but that unique sense of logic was written as well. These BS rules and laws of the KH universe that makes it so characters can just come back in BS ways. Terrible writing.

 

Well if Coded implemented the idea, that just means that it's been terrible writing for longer than I thought.

[Firaga 5,947]

Yes, it's simply following its own unique sense of logic, but that unique sense of logic was written as well. These BS rules and laws of the KH universe that makes it so characters can just come back in BS ways. Terrible writing.

 

Well if Coded implemented the idea, that just means that it's been terrible writing for longer than I thought.

 

If you can agree that its runs on a unique sense of logic but still criticize it, then clearly you're just biased.

[MythrilMagician 6,963]

Absolutely agree with you

 

It's the equivalent of bringing Aerith back to life in Final Fantasy VII after she got killed by Sephiroth

 

Any sort of emotional impact is gone by that point because just like Dragon Ball Z it just takes some bullshit contrived writing method to have no one dies in this series

 

Eraqus in particular should've stayed dead 

Mufasa and Clayton had some brutal deaths dude

 

And don't even get me started on Hunchback of Notre Dome

Problem is those excuses are so poorly written and contrived and you just see through it the moment it happens

 

Again as I said above..........imagine Aerith coming back to life in FFVII after Sephiroth killed her

Those deaths were dark o_o

Also yeah, to see Aerith come back after Sephiroth killing her would be pointless. She was practically stabbed in the heart and her body is at the bottom of a lake in a cave. Seeing her alive again would be weird and rather off. Though seeing her live on as a spirit of some sort is acceptable as she isn't technically alive.

 

As for the Kingdom Hearts deaths and revivals, yes they are weird. You've got humans becoming whole again after their heartless and nobody gets destroyed, Vanitas is most likely still alive and possibly coming back if we take the scene in the cathedral with Young Xehanort as evidence, and Ansem somehow lives on.

 

Also, seeing Ansem SoD constantly coming back bothered me to an extent. Hope we don't see him again. Oh wait, maybe we will, because 13 seekers of darkness.

[Elfdemon_ 695]

I just told you that the idea that they were unhappy was brought up in Coded, not DDD.

 

Also, is it really a happy ending if they can clearly operate as their own people but have no other choice in at that time to be stuck in someone else's subconscious?

 

Yes, it was a happy ending. It was as happy as it could've been until Coded/DDD brought up that it could've been happier. Happy ending does not equal good and satisfying writing though. The whole point of death is that it's not happy. It's not an entirely happy ending. That's what makes it so good. That's why people get so emotional when characters die. Imagine if they made an Old Yeller 2 where it turns out Old Yeller didn't actually die.

If you can agree that its runs on a unique sense of logic but still criticize it, then clearly you're just biased.

 

What? Are you kidding me? You can't criticize real life physics because that's just how things work. But when it comes to fictional physics and logic, they're fictional.

Someone wrote them. It was the writers choice to make these the rules of the KH universe. They didn't HAVE to make it that way. They did it by CHOICE. It is not biased in any way to think that BS fictional physics that someone wrote are BS.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Elfdemon_

[palizinhas 102]

And not only was Coded the one who implemented the idea - and Blank Points the biggest, outright hopeful moment about it pre-DDD, the fact these characters (as far as Roxas and Naminé go, at least, since Xion was only introduced in Days) had unfinished business was around for even longer. As in, KH2FM.

 

Axel brings up the question of whether they really didn't have Hearts when he talks to Roxas after the Sora vs Roxas battle, and Roxas says he trusts Sora to find the answer (which he does, in DDD). And Sora feels bad about not getting to thank Naminé.

 

These characters can't be gone when there are things they still want. And they were never portrayed as dead in the first place, the reason Roxas and Naminé are happy is over the fact they aren't dead, that they didn't fade into darkness, not really about their specific situation living inside Sora/Kairi.

[Dio Brando 5,810]

Those deaths were dark o_o

Also yeah, to see Aerith come back after Sephiroth killing her would be pointless. She was practically stabbed in the heart and her body is at the bottom of a lake in a cave. Seeing her alive again would be weird and rather off. Though seeing her live on as a spirit of some sort is acceptable as she isn't technically alive.

 

As for the Kingdom Hearts deaths and revivals, yes they are weird. You've got humans becoming whole again after their heartless and nobody gets destroyed, Vanitas is most likely still alive and possibly coming back if we take the scene in the cathedral with Young Xehanort as evidence, and Ansem somehow lives on.

 

Also, seeing Ansem SoD constantly coming back bothered me to an extent. Hope we don't see him again. Oh wait, maybe we will, because 13 seekers of darkness.

I'm so sick of Ansem Seeker of Darkness at this point but I have one or two more reasons.

 

At first I liked him back in KH 1 and CoM because that was before we got a bajillion amount of Xehanorts so at the time I let his return slide

 

Seeing him in DDD was too much cuz I'm so sick of the guy already on top of the fact he's the cheapest story boss in the game.

 

The problem is,Death do exist in KH........just not to the main characters of the series

 

Barbosa and Shan Yu clearly died and so is Scar and we see those die on screen(Sora:HEY HAPPY MURDERS DISNEEEEY) but nope any character that originates from KH has to never die

 

they basically have plot armor.A.K.A you'll never die as long as plot and fanservice demand your existence

[ShadowKeyblade 219]

 

In stories, having a character die can get the biggest emotional response possible from the audience. They get the emotional response out of their audience, then they completely undermine and stomp on that emotional response. It's extremely unsatisfying. Roxas and Namine had happy endings. The whole purpose of that scene in KH2 when Namine and Roxas formed back with Sora and Kairi was to show that they got a happy ending. In DDD though, they backpedal and say that they are unhappy and still have things they want to do.

Right, being unable to be yourself and live your own life is "happy." No, it's pretty obvious they'd have lingering feelings, but it was more that they were... content? That it wasn't as bad as it could have been. By the way, it wasn't DDD where that was made obvious... it was pretty clear from Days even that Roxas still had things he wanted to do.

 

Regardless, about bringing in the biggest emotional response, think of how Roxas reacted to Xion's "death." Even if WE know Xion is probably coming back, Roxas doesn't. The emotions that Roxas clearly feels in that moment is what always gets me. It's not always the death itself that elicits the reaction from those big types of moments. 

[Firaga 5,947]

Yes, it was a happy ending. It was as happy as it could've been until Coded/DDD brought up that it could've been happier.

 

As palizinhas pointed out, that's not entirely true. And you're leaving out the fact that Roxas established a connection with the Twilight Trio as well.

 

The whole point of death is that it's not happy. It's not an entirely happy ending. That's what makes it so good. That's why people get so emotional when characters die.

 

See ShadowKeyblade's point.

 

What? Are you kidding me? You can't criticize real life physics because that's just how things work. But when it comes to fictional physics and logic, they're fictional.

Someone wrote them. It was the writers choice to make these the rules of the KH universe. They didn't HAVE to make it that way. They did it by CHOICE. It is not biased in any way to think that BS fictional physics that someone wrote are BS.

 

So does that mean they have to follow realism then or else it's not credible? Does everything, even if its supposed to be fantasy, have to rely on realism. Does every piece of fiction that involves an imagining of the afterlife where people can come back and forth given certain circumstances is automatically bad just because those rules are in place?

Edited August 24, 2016 by Firaga Sensei

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

I'd say many KH fans have a "death fetish" because they are so deprived of it. Yes, there are other means of making drama or conflict, but they constantly have characters die, then completely backpedal on it. They've been dangling death in front of us and when we get it, they reveal to us that it wasn't actually death. It's one of the most unsatisfying things you can do in stories and writing. They get an emotional response from you and then completely undermine and stomp on that emotional response.

 

In stories, having a character die can get the biggest emotional response possible from the audience. They get the emotional response out of their audience, then they completely undermine and stomp on that emotional response. It's extremely unsatisfying. Roxas and Namine had happy endings. The whole purpose of that scene in KH2 when Namine and Roxas formed back with Sora and Kairi was to show that they got a happy ending. In DDD though, they backpedal and say that they are unhappy and still have things they want to do.

How many characters, have actually died? In deaths that had any note finality. Only Riku-Replica had such a fate. Xion's death was literally mooted in the mission after she died. Directly after having her physical body destroyed,she was still able to maintain a presence. She even directly states, though she is gone, she is not truly gone. Namine and Roxas didn't die, their physical existences rejoined with their original selves. But they still had the ability to maintain a presence. The Nobodies`all were always labeled as incomplete existences. Re-completion was inevitable, when it was implied even in Kingdom Hearts 2, that they had hearts.

 

Also, how can you possibly say that Namine and Roxas' endings in KH2 were happy and satisfying. They were told that they were no longer allowed to exist, and were forced to merge with their original selves. Roxas' whole story arc revolved around the fact that he viewed himself as his own being, and didn't want to join back with Sora. If anything it just seemed like Roxas and Namine had accepted that this was the way things were, and they took comfort in the fact that at least they would be able to see each other.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Robbie the Wise

[Elfdemon_ 695]

Right, being unable to be yourself and live your own life is "happy." 

 

Like I said, it being happy or not is irrelevant. The whole point of death is that it ISN'T happy. Would you want there to be a new FF7 game where Aerith comes back to life? Most people who die, whether they be fictional or real, have unfinished business. That's what makes their deaths so sad. That's what makes it so you have a higher emotional response. That's what makes their deaths so good writing-wise. In a story, if an evil character just comes up to a good character and kills them completely out of nowhere and unexectedly, that will give you a much much much higher emotional response than if a character who had a no unfinished business and a fulfulling and happy life was killed. This happens all the time in movies, shows, games, etc. and people are completely fine with it, but for some reason when it comes to KH, people wan't these characters to come back. It's almost as if they don't respect KH compared to other movies, shows, games. They are completely fine with blatant fanservice such as all these characters coming back "cos it'll be fun to see them all fight". It's the same thing with Dragon Ball Z. Characters are constantly coming back and there's constantly new Super Saiyan forms that people just don't care anymore. They've completely lost all respect for it and now only watch it because it's fun, when before, they watched it because it was interesting and gave you emotional responses and they respected it.

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

Like I said, it being happy or not is irrelevant. The whole point of death is that it ISN'T happy. Would you want there to be a new FF7 game where Aerith comes back to life? Most people who die, whether they be fictional or real, have unfinished business. That's what makes their deaths so sad. That's what makes it so you have a higher emotional response. That's what makes their deaths so good writing-wise. In a story, if an evil character just comes up to a good character and kills them completely out of nowhere and unexectedly, that will give you a much much much higher emotional response than if a character who had a no unfinished business and a fulfulling and happy life was killed. This happens all the time in movies, shows, games, etc. and people are completely fine with it, but for some reason when it comes to KH, people wan't these characters to come back. It's almost as if they don't respect KH compared to other movies, shows, games. They are completely fine with blatant fanservice such as all these characters coming back "cos it'll be fun to see them all fight". It's the same thing with Dragon Ball Z. Characters are constantly coming back and there's constantly new Super Saiyan forms that people just don't care anymore. They've completely lost all respect for it and now only watch it because it's fun, when before, they watched it because it was interesting and gave you emotional responses and they respected it.

Dragon Ball is one of the most beloved anime's of all time. Flaws and all people still very much enjoy, and hardly have lost all respect for it.

Edited August 23, 2016 by Robbie the Wise

[Elfdemon_ 695]

See ShadowKeyblade's point.

 

See my points against ShadowKeyblade.

 

So does that mean they have to follow realism then or else it's not credible? Does everything, even if its supposed to be fantasy, have to rely on realism. Does every piece of fiction that involves an imagining of the afterlife where people can come back and forth given certain circumstances is automatically bad just because those rules are in place?

 

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm not saying that the writing of the physics is bad because it's not realistic, I'm saying the writing of the physics is bad because it's bullshit. Making it so this is a world where characters can just easily come back to life is bullshit. It's terrible writing. Not because it's not realistic, but because it completely undermines death and makes it so death is completely meaningless. That's why the writing is bad.

Dragon Ball is one of the most beloved anime's of all time. Flaws and all people still very much enjoy, and hardly have lost all respect for it.

 

Whether it's beloved or not as nothing to do with whether people respect it or not. Dragon Ball Z and Kingdom Hearts are both very beloved series. What I'm saying is that people love them for different reasons than they used to. People used to love Kingdom Hearts because it was interesting, it gave them emotional responses, etc. but now they love it simply because "it's cool to see these things happen." Kingdom Hearts to people has become mindless entertainment when it used to be an emotional and impactful part of their lives.

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

See my points against ShadowKeyblade.

 

 

That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm not saying that the writing of the physics is bad because it's not realistic, I'm saying the writing of the physics is bad because it's bullshit. Making it so this is a world where characters can just easily come back to life is bullshit. It's terrible writing. Not because it's not realistic, but because it completely undermines death and makes it so death is completely meaningless. That's why the writing is bad.

Kingdom Hearts' handling of time travel is bad writing. Kingdom Hearts' handling of death is not. It's one of the few elements of the series that is actually consistent.

 

Whether it's beloved or not as nothing to do with whether people respect it or not. Dragon Ball Z and Kingdom Hearts are both very beloved series. What I'm saying is that people love them for different reasons than they used to. People used to love Kingdom Hearts because it was interesting, it gave them emotional responses, etc. but now they love it simply because "it's cool to see these things happen." Kingdom Hearts to people has become mindless entertainment when it used to be an emotional and impactful part of their lives.

People don't love Kingdom Hearts because it's fun to see things happen. That is a ridiculous notion. People love Kingdom Hearts because they're invested in the story and it's characters. Even with it's flaws, people still come back to the series. This entire forum is built on that devotion. You can't even argue that point.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Robbie the Wise

[Elfdemon_ 695]

Kingdom Hearts' handling of time travel is bad writing. Kingdom Hearts' handling of death is not. It's one of the few elements of the series that is actually consistent.

 

Consistency has nothing to do with whether it's bad writing or not. It just means it's been consistently bad.

[Firaga 5,947]

Like I said, it being happy or not is irrelevant. The whole point of death is that it ISN'T happy.

 

In Roxas and Namine's case, they didn't even die at all, they just decided to conform to their original persona's state of beings and stay in their subconscious. They are clearly shown to still be alive in some form, so frankly, it's come to my attention that this argument for them specifically holds no water.

 

It's the same thing with Dragon Ball Z. Characters are constantly coming back and there's constantly new Super Saiyan forms that people just don't care anymore. They've completely lost all respect for it and now only watch it because it's fun, when before, they watched it because it was interesting and gave you emotional responses and they respected it.

 

Speaking as a longtime DragonBall fan, I can assure you that despite its flaws, that is simply untrue. Just like in KH, death is not a constant, but there are other reason to be invested. The martial arts, combination of magic and sci-fi, lighthearted tone, charming and endearing characters, high octane stakes, etc. keeps fan interested even in current times with DragonBall Super.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Firaga Sensei

[ShadowKeyblade 219]

Like I said, it being happy or not is irrelevant. The whole point of death is that it ISN'T happy. Would you want there to be a new FF7 game where Aerith comes back to life? Most people who die, whether they be fictional or real, have unfinished business. That's what makes their deaths so sad. That's what makes it so you have a higher emotional response. That's what makes their deaths so good writing-wise. In a story, if an evil character just comes up to a good character and kills them completely out of nowhere and unexectedly, that will give you a much much much higher emotional response than if a character who had a no unfinished business and a fulfulling and happy life was killed. This happens all the time in movies, shows, games, etc. and people are completely fine with it, but for some reason when it comes to KH, people wan't these characters to come back. It's almost as if they don't respect KH compared to other movies, shows, games. They are completely fine with blatant fanservice such as all these characters coming back "cos it'll be fun to see them all fight". It's the same thing with Dragon Ball Z. Characters are constantly coming back and there's constantly new Super Saiyan forms that people just don't care anymore. They've completely lost all respect for it and now only watch it because it's fun, when before, they watched it because it was interesting and gave you emotional responses and they respected it.

If it's irrelevant, why did you bring it up in that particular scenario? 

 

Don't give me that "respect" shtick. If anything, I respect them for doing that and going for the total happy ending route, because it's rarely done anymore. The emotion is still there, you're just looking at one thing as opposed to the big picture. 

[Firaga 5,947]

 

No one would've demanded a character to die if the series didn't show us them dying.

If they won't let anyone die.........why have them shown dying at all?Why not have geezer Eraqus and retcon Xion's entire point of existing if all of them will just come back.

 

So if one person dies, a bunch more have to or else the series is bad?

 

So you tell me people like Barbosa,Shan Yu and Clayton can die on screen just fine but none of the characters we saw die like Eraqus and Xion sure whatever man.

 

It's true in fiction that some characters are more important than others.

 

It's literally Dragon Ball Z all over again.I don't care if a character in KH gets killed cuz I know that one or two games later they'll come back

 

Then you don't have to care. You can instead focus on the other conflicts that transpire.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Mystics Apprentice

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

Why then do you go out saying that people have death fetish

 

You're not respecting people's opinion that way if you accuse us of having death fetish

 

No one would've demanded a character to die if the series didn't show us them dying.

 

So you tell me people like Barbosa,Shan Yu and Clayton can die on screen just fine but none of the characters we saw die like Eraqus and Xion sure whatever man

 

If they won't let anyone die.........why have them shown dying at all?Why not have geezer Eraqus and retcon Xion's entire point of existing if all of them will just come back.

 

 

It's literally Dragon Ball Z all over again.I don't care if a character in KH gets killed cuz I know that one or two games later they'll come back

Because they do lol. Fans want death for the sake of death, it's senseless and quite frankly disturbing. When people want death because they have been "Deprived of it", that seems senseless to me.

 

All the Disney characters that have died, died in their respective films. Those characters are free game. KH original characters obey the lore the franchise has laid out, which is completely different from Disney lore. As for KH original characters, again I will point out only Riku-Replica's death had any sense of finality. Every other death had lingering ties, that were used to revive those characters. All those character's revivals made sense in the context of the lore.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Robbie the Wise

[Dio Brando 5,810]

Because they do lol. Fans want death for the sake of death, it's senseless and quite frankly disturbing. When people want death because they have been "Deprived of it", that seems senseless to me.

 

All the Disney characters that have died, died in their respective films. Those characters are free game. KH original characters obey the lore the franchise has laid out, which is completely different from Disney lore. As for KH original characters, again I will point out only Riku-Replica's death had any sense of finality. Every other death had lingering ties, that were used to revive those characters. All those character's revivals made sense in the context of the lore.

Disney IS KH dude like 90% of the whole series is Disney they are part of the lore the moment people like Maleficent,Pete and Mickey stuck their nose in it.

 

Also,I'd like you to tell me how all of this makes sense in the context of the lore

 

Not every death is always for the sake of death and you haven't answered my question:If you're so against death in KH why did they show characters die?Having lingering ties isn't enough of a reason

[Dave 5,715]

Please keep the discussion on topic and polite, thank you.

[Robbie the Wise 5,050]

Disney IS KH dude like 90% of the whole series is Disney they are part of the lore the moment people like Maleficent,Pete and Mickey stuck their nose in it.

 

Also,I'd like you to tell me how all of this makes sense in the context of the lore

 

Not every death is always for the sake of death and you haven't answered my question:If you're so against death in KH why did they show characters die?Having lingering ties isn't enough of a reason

Disney is half of the game yes, but the Disney characters obey their own rules. This is something that's even addressed in game. Characters like Mickey, Pete, and Malificent follow the same lore as the KH original characters because their Disney stories are finished and they have joined w the main cast. They've become more part of the KH part of the story, then the Disney part of the story.

 

As for why show it? Basic plot and character development. Axel's sacrifice was to show how much he had developed from being a "Heartless Nobody". That development now carries over to Lea. Xion's death(which was otherwise pointless) was used to further Roxas' development as a character, which still carries to Roxas. Maleficent's revival was used to add to the Organization's plot to create Kingdom Hearts. I really can go on about how each "death" and revival served some sort of purpose.

Edited August 24, 2016 by Robbie the Wise