Did Nomura plan Xion before he planned to make KHDays?

 

I've seen people who've said that Xion, or something like her, was planned since KHFM because of what appears to be Xehanort sampling Sora's memories at the end of the unknown boss fight.

 

Though in KH2 I feel that the implied relationship at the end with Roxas and Namine is a little strange and seems almost forced if you consider Xion being a thing in Nomura's mind.

 

So what do you guys think? Any evidence you think I'm missing that proves/disproves it?

Edited January 26, 201510 yr by Ninkoro

Probably not. At the very least, Xemnas 'sampling' Sora's memories was not foreshadowing for Xion. AFAIK, she was created when they started putting 358 into production.

Edited January 26, 201510 yr by Kaweebo

I swear to god if someone starts calling her a failed abortion because of this title, I will f***ing destroy someone...

 

I'd say yes, because of the theme of The Trio and it consisting of two guys and a girl, which sounds so wrong now that I think about it, is a recurring element of the series, and since 358/2 focuses on Axel and Roxas, they're gonna need a girl. 

Is anything ever really planned in Kingdom Hearts?

I swear to god if someone starts calling her a failed abortion because of this title, I will f***ing destroy someone...

 

I'd say yes, because of the theme of The Trio and it consisting of two guys and a girl, which sounds so wrong now that I think about it, is a recurring element of the series, and since 358/2 focuses on Axel and Roxas, they're gonna need a girl. 

GOD DAMMIT YOU BEAT ME TO IT

 

TBH I don't think she was planned all the way from KHFM. Days, BBS and Coded were being planned while they were making CoM and KH2.

Almost sure she wasn't planned before KHFM. 

 

I remember reading in an interview Nomura saying that he never expected KH to become so famous -- he only intended to make KH1 and possibly a second game, and that would only happen if it sold the number of copies he expected. As history has proved Nomura wrong, he came up with pretty much everything else later. It is, of course, noticeable, that despite his first thoughts, he had like 10% of expectation that KH would become what it is today, or he would not have created the "holes" in KHI that were answered in the other games.

Xion herself might not have been, but I remember reading an interview that said, if I recall, even before Days was conceived it was planned that someone Roxas's age contributed to his leaving the Organization. Days had to work in Xion's memory-based nature to account for how no mention of this person was made in KH2. KH's retcons rely on in-universe justification and Devil's Proof -- nothing said [X] didn't or couldn't happen, so technically there's no contradictions. Technically. But it's still obvious Nomura is making things up as he goes along.

Edited January 26, 201510 yr by Dracozombie

Xion herself might not have been, but I remember reading an interview that said, if I recall, even before Days was conceived it was planned that someone Roxas's age contributed to his leaving the Organization. Days had to work in Xion's memory-based nature to account for how no mention of this person was made in KH2. KH's retcons rely on in-universe justification and Devil's Proof -- nothing said [X] didn't or couldn't happen, so technically there's no contradictions. Technically. But it's still obvious Nomura is making things up as he goes along.

 

Considering terms such as "The Gathering" have shown up since the very original secret movie, and looking at various interviews, I doubt it's just Nomura making things up as he goes along.

 

However, this doesn't mean it's all planned out to start with, since Nomura has stated he didn't expect the series to become what it is. The Ultimania's do give insight into the productions of the games with their interviews. I remember also one interview that stated that they believed someone was the reason for why Roxas left the Organization or at least part of the reason. That being said, I doubt the full concept of Xion was conceived before the development of Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix had wrapped up. It most likely only started to be formed when work on Days had begun.

Considering terms such as "The Gathering" have shown up since the very original secret movie, and looking at various interviews, I doubt it's just Nomura making things up as he goes along.

 

However, this doesn't mean it's all planned out to start with, since Nomura has stated he didn't expect the series to become what it is. The Ultimania's do give insight into the productions of the games with their interviews. I remember also one interview that stated that they believed someone was the reason for why Roxas left the Organization or at least part of the reason. That being said, I doubt the full concept of Xion was conceived before the development of Kingdom Hearts II Final Mix had wrapped up. It most likely only started to be formed when work on Days had begun.

 

That's exactly what I said. I even mentioned the interview you brought up: Xion probably wasn't fully conceived until Days, but it was always planned that someone Roxas's age compelled him to leave the Organization.

 

Some things were planned but KH as a whole has hardly been following a clear outline. Nomura manages to incorporate his new ideas because a lot of things are left vague to give him plenty of room, or that it turns out the authorities on a certain subject were wrong or something. The Ultimanias may be canon, but there's a storytelling problem when so much critical info can only be seen in sources you need to go out of your way to read. The games themselves leave their concepts so vague that no one is able to say Nomura is wrong when new information seems to contradict what's already been stated.

I've often questioned that myself.  If Nomura really did pull her out of nowhere, he does a great of job incorporating her in into the story.

I swear to god if someone starts calling her a failed abortion because of this title, I will f***ing destroy someone...

 

I'd say yes, because of the theme of The Trio and it consisting of two guys and a girl, which sounds so wrong now that I think about it, is a recurring element of the series, and since 358/2 focuses on Axel and Roxas, they're gonna need a girl. 

You caught my double meaning...

Nomura confirmed that he invisioned that the reason Roxas left the Organization was because of a girl, he only started writing her afterwards though, but yeah, the ideia behind Xion was there during development of KH2

That's exactly what I said. I even mentioned the interview you brought up: Xion probably wasn't fully conceived until Days, but it was always planned that someone Roxas's age compelled him to leave the Organization.

 

Some things were planned but KH as a whole has hardly been following a clear outline. Nomura manages to incorporate his new ideas because a lot of things are left vague to give him plenty of room, or that it turns out the authorities on a certain subject were wrong or something. The Ultimanias may be canon, but there's a storytelling problem when so much critical info can only be seen in sources you need to go out of your way to read. The games themselves leave their concepts so vague that no one is able to say Nomura is wrong when new information seems to contradict what's already been stated.

 

I only quoted that part to say I disagree with the idea that Nomura is making things up as he goes along. Other than that, I was primarily agreeing with your points and also agreeing that concept of Xion wasn't conceived until Kingdom Hearts II's production and even then, wasn't finalized till Days' production.

 

There is some planning for future titles ahead of when they actually enter production, but as far back as KHFM, I don't think they fully had an idea for what would happen if they went past Kingdom Hearts II.

lol of course he didn't. Who plans a Mary Sue?

Xion definitely doesn't feel planned, and I swear somewhere out there there's a source that claims she was added because of the writer of the KH novels

But I don't have much doubt that everything involving Xehanort was planned. There's way too much stuff that fits too well to be made up

Some say she was planned since KH2 because of the smashed portal in that one room in TWTNW. But I think it was mostly a made up whim to have drama in 358/2days

Considering how often Nomura seems to make things up as he goes, I'd be surprised if Xion wasn't made up and tossed into Days to add tension and make the plot even more convoluted.

None of 358/2 Days was planned. Nomura got bored and had written the whole story in a week while in a hotel room, liked it and proceeded to make it.

Nomura confirmed that he invisioned that the reason Roxas left the Organization was because of a girl, he only started writing her afterwards though, but yeah, the ideia behind Xion was there during development of KH2

 

I keep hearing this, but no-one ever links to an interview or names a source.

I keep hearing this, but no-one ever links to an interview or names a source.

 

Can't find the actual interview but I found a transcript where you can read this:

 

Q. Where did the initial concept for the character Xion come from? Was she perceived before the completion for Kingdom Hearts 2? (gorpee)Nomura: The name Xion and her background story was thought of and constructed during the production of this title, but we actually had the concept for a girl character like Xion drawn up since Roxas's defection from Organization XIII. Therefore during the production of this title, we just worked on expanding on the ideas we had for that girl character and wrote Xion's story around that concept. 

I'll always find it funny that Days went over awkwardly with the base. Nomura never wrote the scenario for the series until Days. He literally spent weeks upon weeks in his house doing nothing but write Days.

Somehow I have the urge to post this (wish i could edit xion's face onto her's )

My personal onion is that xion was planned but that is just me

no